MP

[graceabounds]

:)

Circling back:

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for the truth. I would like to understand this world and my existence. I would like to end the rat race. If the path is difficult or not, doesnt matter to me. Life anyway is difficult. I would love to see the truth and remove the I, to be able to see only what is.

What emerges now reading this? What is present?

- Becca

[Meera]

it’s so relieving. i can see now what’s not true. it’s funny to see that the one who wrote this really believed there is something that needs to be removed even though there just was nothing. that one was certainly tired.. tired of not seeing.

also learning that full presence is so priceless.

what you described is happening.. the conditioning the reflexive thoughts. slight worry of falling back. constantly thoughts popping up when feeling, hearing or e,g seeing that body parts or shapes: this is not me. there’s no me.

the thoughts..

but once no thought, its back and clear: there’s nothing. and when that’s clear it’s indescribable peace and sweetness.

like you said. it can’t be undone.

i will be forever grateful to you Becca. thank you so much for the work you‘re doing.

[graceabounds]

YES love

Go into nature if possible and simply spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time. If you bring your son, see him too, in motion.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colors, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.
Then close your eyes and see if there is any line to be found between experiencer and the experience.

Then write what is noticed, what emerges and if any sense of seeking is still present.

In gratitude,
Becca

[Meera]

it’s beautiful.

i couldn’t find a line between experienced and experience. there’s nothing separate. i feel one movement. no experiencer.

[graceabounds]

Yes it is. Beautiful.

I’m going to offer a series of questions now to uncover any remaining gaps in clear seeing. Look into each and continue to report from direct experience, not a concept or philosophy about it. :)

Also if you can use the quote function to reply to each question in one post that would be great. Take your time.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look? Was there a moment of shift with a distinct before and after?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Consider and describe each of these separately.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

8) Anything to add?

In gratitude,
Becca

[Meera]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

for one moment the image of the me (how seen usually in a mirror) appeared but went away. a thought appeared.. sadness, that’s past. sensation felt: warmth, slightly heat. pressure (that’s what’s going on for 1-2 days labeled as headache) but i can’t find a self anywhere in shape or form. a separate entity was never there (still pressure).

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

it’s the illusion of an entity separate from the whole (seeing also other entities separately) that has to do or resist something to feel ease and avoid dis-ease.

from my experience it starts the moment when ‚self‘ or the idea of a separate entity feels threatened or in danger of its existence since it was there with the idea to protect but what it actually does is control (due to trauma, conditioning etc).

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Same time I know how it was not easy at all to find it but at the same time I’m still shook about how reachable it is if it’s deeply wanted.

The difference is that there was a person. For which everything was still subjective to her person.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look? Was there a moment of shift with a distinct before and after?

The difficult circumstances that I’m in. I don’t know exactly. A feeling of being ready to see and find whatever is there.

there was not really a moment of shift or distinct before and after. The peace and lightness felt after the finding was indescribable. most noticeable after was the inner peace and lightness and the missing temperament :)

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Consider and describe each of these separately

.

decision: is not done by a separate entity and is not done through thoughts.

intention: there is no intention. is that no also a thought!?.. there is just a cosmic consciousness or however to call it that works collectively as a whole one.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

consciousness. as a whole.

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

for staying in the present moment and seeing. being aware.

8) Anything to add?

I would feel very open and welcome to see corrections or add-ons. :) Love your work. all the learning is priceless.
Thank you so much.

[graceabounds]

Hello, and thank you.

There is a lot of great looking here. Let’s consider a few areas further:

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

for staying in the present moment and seeing. being aware

Take a look: is there a one who is in charge of staying in the present moment?
Can ‘being aware’ be turned on or off? Who would do that?

Ultimately does a present moment even exist outside of thought? Or is it just THIS?

Same time I know how it was not easy at all to find it but at the same time I’m still shook about how reachable it is if it’s deeply wanted.

Was it the deep wanting that was able to reach, achieve or gain something?
…Can you see the identification here?

there is just a cosmic consciousness or however to call it that works collectively as a whole one.

What or who is ‘cosmic consciousness’ a label for? Drop every name for it (don’t call it awareness, consciousness, or one-ness) and tell me from direct experience… without any go-between or landing place… what makes things happen?


Lastly, could you describe, separately:
-Free will
-Choice
-Control


Much love,
Becca

[Meera]

sorry for some questions it was again answering in concepts and without looking. Hardly gind time to sit silently.

Take a look: is there a one who is in charge of staying in the present moment?
Can ‘being aware’ be turned on or off? Who would do that?

Ultimately does a present moment even exist outside of thought? Or is it just THIS?

No.. there is no one. awareness can’t be turned off or on. there’s no doer or controller. awareness just is.

There’s no present moment. There’s is no time. It just is.

Was it the deep wanting that was able to reach, achieve or gain something?
…Can you see the identification here?

again identification with someone doing something. but no there’s no one. no condition or qualification necessary and no one doing. there can’t be deep wanting because there is no one.

What or who is ‘cosmic consciousness’ a label for? Drop every name for it (don’t call it awareness, consciousness, or one-ness) and tell me from direct experience… without any go-between or landing place… what makes things happen?

it’s all what is. i can’t see or feel any difference between that and the no-me finding. it’s all the same that just is. there is nothing separate.

Free will:
there is no free will. no one who could have a will. if theres freedom then what’s the need of any will.

-Choice: if there’s no one then who can make any choice. all just going without need of any choice.

-Control: there’s no one who can control anything. no necessity.

I was confused the last days when applying two little of my practices that I used to before LU.. Doing them it felt like how you pointed the answer on consciousness. i saw and felt borders. a separation from that (consciousness) from the no-me.

a voice telling… there’s something more to practice, to reach still and the current has to be maintained. (to reach self realization, enlightenment etc..?)

but today the question about consciousness made me cry happily when i found no separation. it just was such ease. everything is there. nothing needed more. there’s no goal. no one nothing to reach anywhere. there only is.

With deep respect and love, thank you so much.

[graceabounds]

Yes.

Nothing to maintain or to attain, and no thing missing, no one to be found. :)

I have no further questions, only gratitude for your courage to look and be ruthlessly honest in this beautiful process. I have shared your thread with some other LU guides to see if they have any clarifying inquiries. Stay tuned for that.

In the meantime is there anything that remains ripe to be investigated together? Anything overlooked?

Much love,
Becca

[Meera]

Thank you so much.

something is there still please.. I’m sorry.

yesterday I placed my son to sleep. Then thought: Can I get my husband to doing LU. Looking inside realizing again there’s nothing to do because no doer, no me I start to feel another layer peeling off. it was so painful. Heat. Seeing both my husband and son that I need to let go of them. It’s the self that wants it and even though it doesnt feel right it feels so painful like losing them. i feel im disappearing. all the story with us is ending. there was never any of them. I lose them. I didn’t interrupt the process but afterwards thoughts worry, fear: there’s no way back. it was a story and i know it. but does the i want to believe it fully. convincing thoughts saying: slow it down. have still some of the story. if i do it too fast ill lose everything.

i’m sorry for the dramatizing and not applying DE fully and sincerely..

But are there probably still traces of a me?.. This morning I’m looking at my husband. thought arises: you’re of the same „material“ as me and everything else. me?? but who am i? I don’t know I felt again that there’s a me with a story.

Did i let go of that story yet?! I see the truth only when I do DE and there’s a shift to heart. Then it’s certainly not a Me that’s trying to operate. Otherwise thoughts and brain overtakes.

In dialogue with you I get into clear DE. doing myself enquiry i don’t necessarily get that shift.

[Meera]

omg reading it now i can see the threatened I everywhere.

[graceabounds]

Yes, layers of belief structures will come up to be looked at in due time. This is very much part of acclimatizing to what has been seen. But you have some tools, and you are noticing the thoughts, the illusion of control.

Look right now. Is anything real being taken away, or only a mental picture? When you’re with them without the story, are they gone, or is there simply connection, touch, sound, sight, without “me” or “mine”? Even if the label ‘son’ or ‘husband’ is not used, what is experienced when they are present?

This is the letting go. And yes, what resists is the trace of “me.” Not a solid one, just a reflex. Go back to watching thoughts… are they owned, or do they simply come and go?

Looking anew:
Where exactly is this “I” that could lose anything?

[Meera]

Yes. exactly.. touch, sound, connection, sight. true..

I looked.. burning, heat, changing into warmth. and then everything just opens and floats how it’s supposed to be.
there’s no I. That there’s no necessity of an I is causing tears. but acceptance. There is no real I that can lose anything.

thank you

[graceabounds]

Well dear,

Beautifully seen and beautifully expressed. It appears that the Gateless Gate has been crossed… but as you know there is no Gate, no one to cross it, and no end to the journey.

Soon you’ll receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest. Your username will change from green to blue and this thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but it will stay active and you will be able to access it or continue to use it at any time.

The experience here is just the beginning of exploring. As you are seeing it is also be the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs and habitual patterns of thought. This can be an emotional process and a nonlinear one. If you would like support at any time you are welcome to drop a line here or by email (I’ll message my address now).

It has been a pleasure to walk beside you here. Of course it is not necessarily the end of our conversation. :)

With gratitude and love,
Becca

[Meera]

Thank you so much.

Indeed, that would be very interesting. I received a message already.

I know this is something LU offers for free.. but Id like to ask you anyways, how could I give back to you, from my heart, for what you’ve given me? How can I honor it? Please let me know honestly. What do I owe you for the time and work you‘ve spent — not the organization, but you?

Much respect and love