MP

[Meera]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by this that the I is an illusion and that most of my energy goes into holding on that illusion and keeping it alive. But that this is also the cause and reason for my reactivity to things that annoy me as well as things that make me happy, sad etc. I dont want neither of them. I am tired of the ups and downs and of living an illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for the truth. I would like to understand this world and my existence. I would like to end the rat race. If the path is difficult or not, doesnt matter to me. Life anyway is difficult. I would love to see the truth and remove the I, to be able to see only what is.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
The guidance would help me to stay focused the right way and not lose the track or search in a wrong perspective. I have tried the manual of Christiane Michelberger. I feel like I need more guidance and that questions arise which would be helpful to clarify during the process.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have learned meditation at young age in childhood but seriously have been seeking and practicing from the age of 20. I am 35 now. I had Ayahuasca Ceremonies eight times that have brought up lots of childhood traumas to surface. UPon that i continued with family constellations (Bert Hellinger) that have revealed my deep desire to break out of the enmeshed family strucutre (indian-german) and system I have grown up in and healing my relationship with my mother and siblings but same time separating from the enmeshed structure. I have no experience in Buddhism but the method of seeking and inquiry is what I have been applying to find rooted trauma and I have tried Christiane Michelbergers Manual.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Meera]

I would like to share that since having read Christiane Michelbergers Manual I am applying everyday at any possible times the method of looking for an I internally. whenever noticing sensations i keep looking further and further and I‘ve come to a stage where while holding my child and singing lullaby to him, and questioning whether there’s truly an I and where the border of the I is starting and where the border of the other is ending. this question made me look into his eyes differently. he suddenly didn’t look like „the other“. our bodies seemed sort of like fluid or wavy. or like merging.

Short while after that i had cries in the car (not driving myself) just like that..tears and it felt like pain that sat deep was coming out. each tear felt pretty relieving. during the crying my body went on becoming more and more heavy. like there’s nothing inside holding it. like a balloon that has been emptied of air. and it couldn’t move for a while. the eyes didn’t wanna move as well. it felt like i was not operating it for a while. i felt so empty and weak. in theory i understand that i am indeed not operating anything but I can’t see that clearly yet because the I is still existent).

i feel like i got an insight or a glimpse or whatever to call it!? something like this but more intense was an experience about 2 years ago in an Ayahuasca ceremony where i completely lost control over my body and my husband moved my body to the hall. i could feel all what he was doing but i couldn’t operate my body at all. like i’ve actually not been inside (which actually is the case i guess).

please help.. i feel like i see everything quite differently and doubt and questions everything whether what’s real and if there’s an I anywhere but can’t see it clearly yet. last year (before knowing LU i have had several moments where i was questioning what’s real and fear like hell was coming up it felt like i would disappear, that i don’t know what’s on the other side. that what is even true at all? am i going mad. i couldn’t handle it that time. now this fear doesn’t show up that way but is more like the experience that i had in the car. i want to see the truth. doesn’t matter if i disappear. i’m tired of life the way how it is.

the most recent that i could find when i scanned my whole body and the internals from toe to top the only spot where i couldn’t answer that there’s no me was the brain. i know in theory there’s no me but i can sense something there and it wants to stay there.

[Meera]

Short while after that i had cries in the car (not driving myself) just like that..tears and it felt like pain that sat deep was coming out. each tear felt pretty relieving. during the crying my body went on becoming more and more heavy. like there’s nothing inside holding it. like a balloon that has been emptied of air. and it couldn’t move for a while. the eyes didn’t wanna move as well. it felt like i was not operating it for a while. i felt so empty and weak. in theory i understand that i am indeed not operating anything but I can’t see that clearly yet because the I is still existent).

since this incident I have had two more experiences.

had another shivers and cries. and energy is moving. inside (or not inside?) it feels like something is releasing. like a ball of pressurized energy is dissolving? don’t know how to put in right words.
it felt like something shifted. like what i usually would want i don’t want anymore. right now everything looks indifferent to the person who usually would care.
i felt twice and feel now again like i have to vomit.
like shivers on my back. and in the throat and my gut. the feeling to vomit is coming up still at times when I look differently.

then all sort of thoughts popped in about who the persona priya / or mira is.
she’s kind
daughter of …
she’s a diligent one
she’s reliable
she’s spiritual
she’s been through a lot
she’s the little one
she’s thin
she was ugly before and then became prettier
she’s the dumb one

endlessly stories about the i
with everything had to conclude that that’s never been me. that was just stories and built up out of opinions of others or thoughts about how others view me. that’s just all was in my brain. which is not me!?

i’m unshaken when there are verbal attacks on my person but i still could get annoyed of unpleasant situations or dealing with someone (such as currently my husband) who does things the wrong way and presses me. the personal aspect is gone but the disagreement with certain ways and situations not.

could u please let me know where i am?

the world doesn’t look different to me and i also dont see what i have seen once constantly. i do practice the training still to look at the world that its just happening. but only when i focus.

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Thanks so much for your patience in waiting for a guide. I’d be happy to be with you in this inquiry.

To begin, please read and say to yourself several times: *There is no separate self, there never was, there never will be*

After each time you read or say it, notice what happens, feelings, sensations, thoughts, movements... And write here what is noticed.

Don't try to get anything right, just share what is seen, unfiltered. Generally this process will be driven by seeing what is already happening, what is already the case. What is effortlessly seen while engaging questions and exercises is what is important. What you actually write me is secondary to that.

Much love,
Becca

[Meera]

Dear Becca,

thank you very much for your readiness to guide me. I appreciate that.

To begin, please read and say to yourself several times: *There is no separate self, there never was, there never will be*

After each time you read or say it, notice what happens, feelings, sensations, thoughts, movements... And write here what is noticed.

slight sensations and movement in the stomach and chest. slight feeling to cry. feeling of sickness in the throat. deep breaths. Feeling empty. Shoulders down. legs heavy but internally empty and light. It’s an unusual emptiness.I understand there is no I. I have not found any. It still feels like a departure and letting go.

Looking forward reading from you Becca.

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Yes. There is intellectual alignment but let’s look more into what the body has been expressing in relation to this whole endeavor.

The feeling in the throat, the chest, this ongoing feeling of nausea… what are they wanting to communicate? Taking each of these sensations in turn, sit with it for a while, acknowledge it, let it be fully. Then ask what it would like to share? This is not an intellectual exercise so there may not be an answer in words… an image may come, an emotion, a memory. Just be present with whatever arises and thank it for sharing.

You can also look all around and underneath and behind these sensations. See what is there to be protected when this phrase is used “there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be”…

the most recent that i could find when i scanned my whole body and the internals from toe to top the only spot where i couldn’t answer that there’s no me was the brain. i know in theory there’s no me but i can sense something there and it wants to stay there.

Is this feeling, this sense of I, still present in the brain? Where precisely?

-Becca

[Meera]

I said the sentence again and again but the sensation did not arise again.

However i just now came repeatingly to the question who I am again. and sensations started.. in the chest and stomach. i acknowledged them and kept asking who I am really. Then the nausea came up again and heavy breathing. There was an emotional answer when i couldn’t find any I: but it was me who experienced all these things? and then i had to cry. but still there is a slight headache somewhere which i feel needs to be released. I couldn’t continue as my little child cane up. I would try again this evening once he sleeps or during a silent moment. my whole body again feels empty and like it’s not being operated by a me. arms and legs heavy just hanging down. the arms especially feel very heavvy.

[Meera]

Im sorry but I have to correct that the emotional sentence precisely was: „but i was the one who experienced all this?“

[Meera]

headache:

I asked what it wants to tell me.
it felt like a stick in the right side of my head starting from top of the head until behind the right eye. kept on asking.
a feeling came up. threat. and what’s around feels threatened and scared. i kept on and was full of tears. but it felt like a release.

[Meera]

Is this feeling, this sense of I, still present in the brain? Where precisely?

Behind the eyes.

i’m so sorry for the many short posts. I will try my best to do this better.

[graceabounds]

Write as often and as much as you like. We appear to be on different continents so I just read your posts all together when I woke up. My little one is still sleeping so I understand about finding little pockets of time.

And very good, the whole thing you just described is already the work.
Nausea, heavy arms, tears, “behind the eyes” feeling, and that threat release… they are exactly where the “I” story shows up.

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for a while. Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time.
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience, and you will be looking in this way with eyes closed next.

——-

Now, here is some guidance for when you sit and look again:

1. Go straight to the “I who experienced all this” thought.
Don’t try to answer it. Just feel exactly what happens in the body the instant that thought arises. Drop all the thought labels like “chest,” “headache,” “fear.” Stay with the raw, pre-word sensation.

2. Let the headache/threat contraction be fully there.
The moment a story or analysis starts (“why,” “how”), see that as the avoidance mechanism. Drop back to what is here: pulsing, pressure, heat, vibration.

3. Do not try to release anything!
Wanting release is more selfing. Instead, get intimate with the sensation until nothing else exists but the living texture of it.

4. Notice the exact moment it shifts.
It may morph into something else (fear to sadness, contraction to space) just keep following it. This is the process, not a block.

——-

When you say the sense of I is “behind the eyes,” look right there. Is there actually an “I” behind the eyes, or just a sensation plus a thought-image? Find out directly. Is the sensation related to the thought label that it is ‘I’

[Meera]

i looked the way at the objects in front of me and noticed how they are just lines, patterns and that really everything is connected in some way. nothing can be completely separate in its own. there is nothing that is really only a piece or a separate thing. all the same just differently formed, shaped but connected. no borders. the lines and patterns only make them look like.

closing eyes then the seeing was different. there were sensations but i didn’t see them as something inside a vessel (the body). the sensations were not inside or outside. everything expanded like an ocean of waves. sensations are there but cannot be located. heat somewhere, burning. unease somewhere. sound. something actually sounded like waves.

there were not so strong sensations this time.

i could say i was trying to sleep for about half an hour and then something just itself happened while half asleep.. but its hard to put into words. i see like stuff resolved into the vast. it felt good. and then i’ve seen something like a human figure. more like a computer coded one . arms and legs moving up and down so fast. it looked like that idea or thought of me in resistance? always trying to do something :(.

after that another attempt of sleep but again sensations coming up and i apply the same way only this time i feel quite frustrated and the headache is strong. nausea. i can’t focus. my child screams and everything at the in and outside becomes chaotic all at once. i thought perhaps this is also sort of the avoidance thing? and i should still look? anyway i did this and noticed the sensations that felt very uneasy again. some heavy breaths and i heard fast heartbeats. i this time also did not try to release anything. and i noticed that the sensations cooled down or went away.

all for now.. i will try more. behind the eyes i couldn’t sense this time anything.

[graceabounds]

Very nice looking.

arms and legs moving up and down so fast. it looked like that idea or thought of me in resistance? always trying to do something :(.

Is there a sense of doership in life? For example can you see a self making you leave the bed?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body get up? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body?

my child screams and everything at the in and outside becomes chaotic all at once. i thought perhaps this is also sort of the avoidance thing? and i should still look? anyway i did this and noticed the sensations that felt very uneasy again. some heavy breaths and i heard fast heartbeats. i this time also did not try to release anything. and i noticed that the sensations cooled down or went away.

Yes the chaos — headache, nausea, child screaming, everything at once — can be the avoidance mechanism at work. But you did exactly what dismantles it: stayed with the raw unease without needing to fix or release it. And the system cooled down by itself. That cooling is not a reward, its just what happens when the “get away from this” reflex is not fed.

Next time chaos comes, notice the sense of “inside” and “outside” chaos is also just sensation + sound + movement. Check to see if the “me in the middle of this” is present and if so if it is necessary or relevant.

Looking freshly now, can you find any actual separate experiencer in the middle of the seeing, hearing, remembering?

[Meera]

Is there a sense of doership in life? For example can you see a self making you leave the bed?

no there is no self that’s doing something. there is no ‚me’ that is commanding the body.

Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body get up? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body?

something that’s not tangible.. i don’t know.. like the all?? something that’s beyond all.. not some“thing“. it’s definitely not a thing… it’s that… i don’t have words. it’s not tangible.

Looking freshly now, can you find any actual separate experiencer in the middle of the seeing, hearing, remembering?

no i cannot.

before writing this i had many more tries seeing through and again many sensations. but right now it’s still.

apart from this i generally would like to share..

I am not the same the last couple of days. there is hardly any reactivity (which before was there daily). i can see the things much clearer. what used to trigger and hurt me deeply now doesn’t cause a personally based reaction with highs or lows, anger and disappointment. there’s not a person or character that is effected or hurt. there is only what is. what’s new also that i see clearly when someone is in some role or pattern (or not real?). it doesn’t disturb me but if in conversation with me and wanting something from me i know clearly what role im not ready to serve (because i know now that im not all those labels that i believed in? weak, needy, dependent etc).

however this night and morning i had hardly any sleep. it was a difficult night. it felt tough and grueling.

is this a gradual process? yesterday i felt like there are still traces of an I. Now i feel again more clear.

Thank you again so much for your helpful guidance and the fast responses.

[Meera]

no i have not gotten through yet.. i have a free moment. and i still feel many sensations. this supposed to be a marker for that the i is still there right? i’ll try more now and report back