consistent authentic/true mode of being

[Leto]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? The self is just a thought and/or is automatically indicated with every thought (e.g. I‘m going to the supermarket etc.). But it is a very sticky thought which separates me from everything else.

What are you looking for at LU? I am Looking for an consistent non-duality/non-self/self-ist-just-a-though or if not that, an authentic mode of being. I hope to find a guide who can help me to integrate a consistent non-self modus of being in my life and not just a experience of non-being for an couple of hours.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? That there is someone I can ask questions and is looking after me on this process and points in every communication out where I am right now and how I can keep going. And a person who is questions me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I worked with the question "what am I" 7 years ago and experienced a state in which everything flows and is interwoven. Over an year ago I started the Koan training and through the Koan MU I experienced a state that is neither to be nor not to be or both at the same time. I was on the razor's edge between being and not being. Questions like death no longer played a role, it was an absurd question. It was all good. But this state only lasted for a few hours and then disappeared again and the aftercare was not so good. I would have liked to continue working on a consistent mode of being from this point onwards, integrating the state I experienced. Now I have an ego thought again that feels like a being mode. Right now I am dealing with my thoughts, what are they anyway?
During the retreat I‘m coming back right now, I experienced the following in meditation: Sometimes, when I simply concentrate on how thoughts come and go, I notice that a thought is just emerging and disappears again before it has even taken shape. It feels like just one thought, but it can take on all kinds of specific thoughts. A good or bad thought makes no difference, because it is actually one and the same thought. That was very relieving. But right now I don't know how to deal with my perception, which is also just a thought, and with the space in which the concentrating and observing takes place (also just a thought?). And when I get to this point, it always feels like it collapses and then everything has the same substance as a thought, including my body and my environment, and I somehow shy away from that. And I'm afraid that I'm just imagining it all.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

[Steve101]

Hi, my name is Steve, I would be very happy to embark on this exploration with you, provided we both agree on the way to proceed. Please carefully consider the following points, which blend universal LU elements with specific guidance:

1. Throughout this process, your focus should be solely on your direct experience (DE). We will avoid delving into theories, beliefs, or alternative methods, including those from non-duality. Relying on external beliefs is not the aim. I will pose questions, and your responses should stem directly from your personal experiences.

2. The key elements driving this process are your desire to discover the truth and your willingness to delve deeply into the questions. Wholehearted engagement in the experiments and exercises I present is crucial. Your commitment to reporting experiences here with complete honesty is essential. If you are prepared for this level of engagement, the process will naturally unfold as it should.

3. To ensure focus and productivity in this process, both of us should commit to responding on this thread daily. In cases of exceptional circumstances preventing a response, we agree to communicate this in advance on the thread, either the day before or on the day. If this rhythm doesn't align with your lifestyle, style, or preferences at the moment, please inform me and we can postpone until you are ready to fully commit to this process.

It is important to take the time to thoroughly go through the information contained in the links below and ensure that you are on board with their content:

‪http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2‬

And:

‪http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041‬

Learn how to use the Quote Function here:
‪https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... AToDNh9hQ‬

Please answer each question that is presented individually, as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue. Let’s begin….

Are you ready for this?

What shall I call you?

ALSO:

1. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the bottom left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

2. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the inquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers.

[Steve101]

Hi, my name is Steve, I would be very happy to embark on this exploration with you, provided we both agree on the way to proceed. Please carefully consider the following points, which blend universal LU elements with specific guidance:

1. Throughout this process, your focus should be solely on your direct experience (DE). We will avoid delving into theories, beliefs, or alternative methods, including those from non-duality. Relying on external beliefs is not the aim. I will pose questions, and your responses should stem directly from your personal experiences.

2. The key elements driving this process are your desire to discover the truth and your willingness to delve deeply into the questions. Wholehearted engagement in the experiments and exercises I present is crucial. Your commitment to reporting experiences here with complete honesty is essential. If you are prepared for this level of engagement, the process will naturally unfold as it should.

3. To ensure focus and productivity in this process, both of us should commit to responding on this thread daily. In cases of exceptional circumstances preventing a response, we agree to communicate this in advance on the thread, either the day before or on the day. If this rhythm doesn't align with your lifestyle, style, or preferences at the moment, please inform me and we can postpone until you are ready to fully commit to this process.

It is important to take the time to thoroughly go through the information contained in the links below and ensure that you are on board with their content:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/

And:

‪http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041‬

Learn how to use the Quote Function here:
‪https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... AToDNh9hQ‬

Please answer each question that is presented individually, as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue. Let’s begin….

Are you ready for this?

What shall I call you?

ALSO:

1. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the bottom left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

2. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the inquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers.

[Steve101]

FYI: I noticed in my reply to you opening post that the link to the LU disclaimer was no longer working so I corrected this in the subsequent post.

[Leto]

Hi, my name is Steve, I would be very happy to embark on this exploration with you, provided we both agree on the way to proceed. Please carefully consider the following points, which blend universal LU elements with specific guidance:

1. Throughout this process, your focus should be solely on your direct experience (DE). We will avoid delving into theories, beliefs, or alternative methods, including those from non-duality. Relying on external beliefs is not the aim. I will pose questions, and your responses should stem directly from your personal experiences.

2. The key elements driving this process are your desire to discover the truth and your willingness to delve deeply into the questions. Wholehearted engagement in the experiments and exercises I present is crucial. Your commitment to reporting experiences here with complete honesty is essential. If you are prepared for this level of engagement, the process will naturally unfold as it should.

3. To ensure focus and productivity in this process, both of us should commit to responding on this thread daily. In cases of exceptional circumstances preventing a response, we agree to communicate this in advance on the thread, either the day before or on the day. If this rhythm doesn't align with your lifestyle, style, or preferences at the moment, please inform me and we can postpone until you are ready to fully commit to this process.

It is important to take the time to thoroughly go through the information contained in the links below and ensure that you are on board with their content:

‪http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2‬

And:

‪http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041‬

Learn how to use the Quote Function here:
‪https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... AToDNh9hQ‬

Please answer each question that is presented individually, as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue. Let’s begin….

Are you ready for this?

What shall I call you?

ALSO:

1. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the bottom left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

2. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the inquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers.

Hey Steve, I hope this is the right tex field to answer :‘)
Thank you for guiding me on this process, that means a lot and I‘m looking forward for what is coming.

Here are my answers to your questions:

I‘m ready.

You can call me Leto.

[Steve101]

Hi Leto, it is my privilege and honor to guide you in this process. Let’s now begin this journey together.
 

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

Why an 8?

Please see the following video links below. You may wish to pause the videos, take notes and carefully consider the message contained in each. Having watched each video in turn answer the questions in blue directly below the video links.
 
Look with Honesty
 
https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c
 
Describe the difference between seeing and thinking as discussed in the video. Put this in your own words, please don’t quote or paraphrase the speaker in the video.

 
Why See No Self? OneSpaciousness, aka Lisa Kahale
 
https://youtu.be/WNiZiCwcBZU
 
At the beginning of this video the speaker says, ‘You are not WHAT you think you are.’ She doesn’t say, ‘You are not WHO you think you are.’ Tell me why she might have used this turn of phrase.

[Leto]

Hi Leto, it is my privilege and honor to guide you in this process. Let’s now begin this journey together.
 

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

Why an 8?

Please see the following video links below. You may wish to pause the videos, take notes and carefully consider the message contained in each. Having watched each video in turn answer the questions in blue directly below the video links.
 
Look with Honesty
 
https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c
 
Describe the difference between seeing and thinking as discussed in the video. Put this in your own words, please don’t quote or paraphrase the speaker in the video.

 
Why See No Self? OneSpaciousness, aka Lisa Kahale
 
https://youtu.be/WNiZiCwcBZU
 
At the beginning of this video the speaker says, ‘You are not WHAT you think you are.’ She doesn’t say, ‘You are not WHO you think you are.’ Tell me why she might have used this turn of phrase.

Question regarding the 8:
Although I am prepared to follow this path to the full and free myself from the illusion of the ego mindset, I also feel a certain fear that I will no longer exist at the end of the process. That I will no longer be able to enjoy things like Suhi or vacations, that I will no longer love when I cuddle friends or that I will no longer be able to put myself in other people's shoes. I'm afraid of becoming like Albert Camus' protagonist in his book "the stranger", who doesn't care about anything. There is also a kind of fear of death. So the fear that I, the one who perceives here, will then have died.

Question regarding the first video:
The question is not blue, but I think I should answer it anyway, right? The difference between seeing and thinking is that thinking is an intermediate step of seeing, a moderator. Seeing directly is a shortcut to perceiving reality as it is.

Question regarding the second video:
The WHO includes an alternative which I am. The WHAT also includes the possibility that I am not an alternative. The WHAT aims to leave the dimension of "I am this and that" for another dimension where the question of WHO does not arise

[Steve101]

Hi Leto, excellent, thank you for your reply.

1. There is no need to use the quote function to reference entire blocks of text, just use it to reference specific questions in blue that require an answer or a particular point on which you require more clarity.

2. I have carefully read through your answers. We will let them sit for the moment and come back to certain concerns as when appropriate.

The initial step involves delving into the realm of thoughts and its content using Direct Experience DE. The aim is to cultivate a habit of recognizing thought stories for what they truly are. To achieve this, one must introspect and infuse the investigative process into as much of their time as reasonably possible. This isn't a sporadic practice, to be recalled once or twice a day or week. It demands sustained alertness, steering clear of distractions, and immersing oneself in the seeing through thought and its content seeing it for the illusion that it is.

To progress, it's crucial to discard preconceived notions of "awakening" and approach things with a fresh perspective. This entails shedding the spiritual jargon and delving into your own experience without overlaying it with the words or experiences of others.

Additionally, you must be prepared to question everything you believe you know about this subject (and others). There is no alternative route. Let me know if you're ready for this. It's perfectly acceptable if you're not.

First Questions:
Let's start with your expectations, in your own words with 100% honesty, answer the following questions.

What do you expect to happen when the illusion of a separate self is seen
through?

How will you change?

How will life change?

What will be different?

What is missing?

[Leto]

Hey Steve,

yes I‘m ready to leave all my knowledge and experience regarding awakening behind me.

What do you expect to happen when the illusion of a separate self is seen
through?
-> I don’t really know, I can’t imagine the experience. But I hope that there is no difference between me an something else in the room and that this takes away the burden of having a separate self with all its self centered problems or that I can deal with it better

How will you change?
-> That I am lighter and less selfish with my environment. That it's more about being than having. That I am at peace with what happens.

How will life change?
-> Not at all, I would like to do the process in my current life and be able to live a normal life.

What will be different?
->See answer to first question. That would be the main point that would be different.

What is missing?
-> Nothing is missing, rather there is too much, namely my separate view of the world.

[Steve101]

Hi Leto, your expectations seem completely reasonable.

Although I am prepared to follow this path to the full and free myself from the illusion of the ego mindset, I also feel a certain fear that I will no longer exist at the end of the process. That I will no longer be able to enjoy things like Suhi or vacations, that I will no longer love when I cuddle friends or that I will no longer be able to put myself in other people's shoes. I'm afraid of becoming like Albert Camus' protagonist in his book "the stranger", who doesn't care about anything. There is also a kind of fear of death. So the fear that I, the one who perceives here, will then have died.

Fear can come up in this process and is perfectly natural. it’s usually only here to show you that you are entering uncharted areas and can signal that something feels the need to be protected and does not want to be exposed. Also, without wishing to sound flippant, I have a friend who has been through the gate and he still loves Suhi.

[Steve101]

Hi Leto,

BECOMING CLEAR WHEN LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF A 'SELF'

There is a BIG difference between intellectual/conceptual knowing that the ‘self’ is an illusion and real seeing and directly experiencing that it ‘is’ an illusion.

If you can’t SEE for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you see in your own words.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

COLOURED SOCKS
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guess what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you can be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in those two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.


DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS:
Seeing
Hearing
Feeling or Sensing (without naming emotion as this is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Cognising or Thinking (but not the content of thinking. Thinking about content is just more thinking and diverts you from the direct experience).

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Direct Experience is not conceptual or made of content loaded thought. Experiencing happens before thought arrives to describe or explain it. The moment we attempt to communicate experience we introduce concepts. We then respond or identify with those concepts.


DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with your own list exactly like the one above. The point is to learn the difference between Actual / Direct Experience and the content of thought, which is an overlay on the DE.

Post several of your own observations in a list exactly like the one above, please, using the same word forms/layout of your direct experiencing.

[Leto]

Hey Steve,

regarding DE, everything is clear.

Here are four of my daily activities:

Listening to music
Looking at my white ceiling, simply= image/color
Smelling the smell of my room, simply = smell
Feeling the case of my AirPods, simply = sensation
Aftertaste of a banana, simply = taste
Vocal music, simply = sound
What a beautiful music, simply = thought

Scrolling through Instagram
Looking on the screen of my smartphone, simply= image/color
Smelling nothing bc of sniffle, simply = smell
Feeling my smartphone and my blanket, simply = sensation
Tasting nothing, simply = taste
The quietness of my room, simply = sound
thinking there is nothing interesting on Instagram, simply = thought

Showering
Looking at my shower curtain , simply= image/color
Smelling nothing bc of sniffle, simply = smell
Feeling the water on my skin, simply = sensation
Tasting aftertaste of toothpaste, simply = taste
The sound of the water, simply = sound
thinking its not hot enough, simply = thought

Working on the Laptop
Looking at the screen of the laptop , simply= image/color
Smelling nothing bc of sniffle, simply = smell
Feeling keyboard, simply = sensation
Tasting the choclate, simply = taste
The sound of the cooling system of the laptop, simply = sound
thinking about that I could write this down for Steve, simply = thought

[Steve101]

Excellent Leto, this is Direct Experience, we look without thought labelling to see what is real and actually there.

There is raw experience: simply hearing, simply seeing, simply tasting, simply smelling, simply touching. There are sensations in the body: hunger, thirst, pain. This is what we call Direct Experience. Then there are thoughts. Thoughts overlay concepts over raw experience. A thought, or label or concept is never the raw experience. Some thoughts point to raw experience and some thoughts just point to other thoughts.

Many people come to LU with their own experiences and they are all different, no two experiences are the same. Past experiences can create thought stories that can build future expectations. Two common factors that prevent people from awakening are EXPECTATIONS and FEAR.

Not only getting these expectations out in the open but also understanding the nature of expectations in general is important. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about getting rid of, or changing physical pain.


Having read the list above consider the real nature of expectations.

Tell me what you think expectations are anyway (not just within the context of LU)? Are they a function of the past or the future and if they are a function of time how real are they? Try your newly acquired knowledge of DE to look for them in the present and report back.

[Leto]

Hey Steve,

When I practise DE, there are no expectations. Expectations are thoughts that relate to the future and/or the past. If they relate to the past, they make me happy or sad, depending on whether what I expected has happened or not. If they refer to the future, I no longer approach the future situation with a certain openness. If I look further into the question, I realize that expectations also carry a consistent self through time. They make me believe that I am experiencing a certain future or have experienced a certain past as a fixed thing and evaluate it in relation to my self. But perhaps this is going too far and becoming too intellectual. In any case, expectations separate me from the present moment and prevent me from DE. They also evaluate the present moment according to whether I had expectations of it. This again prevents me from DE because I only pay attention to what I had expectations of.

[Steve101]

Hi Leto,

In any case, expectations separate me from the present moment and prevent me from DE. They also evaluate the present moment according to whether I had expectations of it. This again prevents me from DE because I only pay attention to what I had expectations of.

Yes, precisely Leto, expectations only serve to get in the way of DE and create thought stories about a future that does not exist. We are now ready to move on and take a look at another aspect of mind which can prevent us from seeing clearly:

Mind Labeling Experience

The mind has a tendency to label things that it focuses on. In the course of your normal everyday life have you may have noticed that your mind names things and tells stories about those things? When we acquire language the mind learns to label actions: “I walk”, “I talk”, “I breathe,” etc. If you change these labels to “walking,” “talking,” “breathing,” what happens? Is there a real “I” that takes those actions or is it just a case of, walking happening, talking happening, breathing happening? Is there an “I” doing the breathing?

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into two 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now while noticing what is happening in the body.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. What differences/changes in the body did you notice?


If you are still unsure about the use of the quote function go back to link for the instructional video. Please highlight each separate question in blue, hit the quote button and place your answer below each quoted question. Let’s proceed like that.