Has the Gate been crossed?

[P5yx]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? The self, the person, is merely a bundle of thoughts that claim possession over certain aspects of the sense fields. Outside these thoughts a self cannot be found. The story about a self comes from confusing Beingness with thoughts containing an "I", "my", or "mine", which must be constantly renewed to maintain the illusion.

What are you looking for at LU? While I suspect having crossed the Gate about a week ago, I'm looking for an awakened person directly confirming my findings, as the "event" certainly differed from what I have expected. Also the days after the "event" continuously brought new insights, which is still ongoing. With a guide, I hope the next steps to be laid out, as everything is still very fresh and new. I'd like to have a one-on-one conversation, as I miss the opportunity to directly speak about my insights. Surprisingly, my curiosity for realizing the truth was not satisfied with the occurrence of the "event" but even strengthened.

If my assumption is wrong, and I have not crossed the Gate yet, I hope to receive guidance until crossing the event horizon. In addition, I would like to come into contact with a community of like-minded people that help each other to continue the path after crossing the Gate. Also, I am interested in guiding others in the future.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I expect an awakened guide to deeply probe my current views and either confirm my insights or help me crossing the Gate. In this regard, I hope for someone who can determine if my insights are (at least partly) based on intellectual understanding or have its foundation on true knowledge coming from direct experience only. I'm looking for confirmation if I have indeed crossed the Gate, as the event I suspect to be awakening was far less special than I expected it to be. I really don't want to miss anything here. In this course, I hope to find out where on the path of Self-realization I am currently standing. In addition, I would love to receive some pointers in which direction I should head after seeing through the illusion of a separate self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I only came into contact with spirituality about half a year ago. So this whole complex is pretty new for me. It all started by reading Angelo DilLullo's book "AWAKE". From then on, I was hooked regarding self-introspection. Shortly after finishing the book, the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj came into my presence and I started to practice Self-inquiry and plain looking, both which I still do on a day-to-day basis. About a month ago, I found out about LU and the method of direct pointing. After reading only through a single thread of the Gate's forum, a shift in perception happened and the illusion of the separate self was seen through (at least that's what I suspect).

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can help you check in to your seeing & tie up any loose ends.

Normally, I take clients through a few pointers that establish some basics. We could do that or I can just ask confirmation questions. Let's start with a couple of those. I'll give a pointer exercise where needed.

First, can you say 100% there's no separate "self, " and never has been? That it is all a made up story?

If so, how does it feel to see this?


Loving

[P5yx]

Hi Stacy,

it's a pleasure meeting you :). Let me first and foremost express my sincere gratitude for having you as my guide. Thanks a lot.

Regarding how we proceed with the inquiry, I would let that be completely up to you. Let's just let it flow naturally, so that hidden believe structures and intellectual understanding will hopefully surface on their own.

First, can you say 100% there's no separate "self, " and never has been? That it is all a made up story?

All I can say is that there is no separate self in the five sense fields (seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting). The self exists only in thought while there is no thinker to it but only thinking happening. In this regard, each thought containing an "I", "my", "mine", or the image of the body reinforces the illusion of a separate self. But not only that. Also thoughts that put the self into the context of physical space automatically create a reference point by inserting an image of a person (here) and another object (there). So in this regard, yes it can be clearly seen that the separate self is only existing as a made up story. However, there is a certain sense of Self, a sense of identity what many refer to Being/knowing. The illusion of continuity of a self comes from intermeshing this Being/knowing/sense of identity with the appearing and subsiding thoughts containing this separate self. Due to re-identifying with the self, this insight seems to be temporary forgotten (rather not felt anymore) in everyday life on a regular basis.

But my recognition during the "event" didn't end here. Not only the separate self is illusionary but almost ANYTHING seems conceptual. The mind's concepts lay like a vail upon everything that is perceived. E.g., during the "event" I could see that there are no cars driving but only changing colors, sounds, and sensations labeled as "car driving" (the image of a driving car was put over the colors). So in reality there are no cars. There were also no mountains when looking outside the car's window but only color which thought made into the concept of a mountain. Another example that I saw when driving was that mind inserted a picture of my sitting body when looking out of the car's window, while in direct experience "sitting" was just the combination of changing colors (e.g., arms moving) and sensations. So the separate self seems illusionary but identity remains.

If so, how does it feel to see this?

I need to differentiate here as my feeling is constantly fluctuating since the "event". Right after the "event", I remember that I felt a recognition that goes beyond intellectual understanding. A deeper knowing of how things really are. Seeing that both the self and the conceptual reality are both illusionary brought memories of stories I have read about awakening. These stories seemed to confirm my recognition. A shift in perception seemed to have taken place. However, comparing "my event" to those stories seemed so much more underwhelming that there still exist some doubts that this wasn't really IT. I've expected a big BANG, probably some altered state of consciousness (at least for a short while), any emotions, etc. But for me it was just like... "oh, so that's how this all works. Nice now let's focus on deepening the realization". It wasn't overwhelming. I didn't feel fear or joy or bliss. It was just this, that the person arises as images or labels within thought content and that concepts seem to overlay anything. Nothing else is different. There wasn't a feeling of having settled. There wasn't a honeymoon period as I've often heard about.

The following days (up to today) are a constant fluctuation. The self is still there, totally unchanged. And there seem many times when reidentification happens. When I temporarily "forget" that I'm not that. But there were also days of being extremely present, merging with my perceptions. E.g., one day hearing music, it felt like being that music.

So what has changed? Only a single thing. There is a knowing (which is often forgotten during moments of re-identification) that there is the capacity to handle further ego stories and "negative" emotions. It's as if this event gave me a tool to now handle these Vasanas/habitual tendencies/triggers. But in a way now every triggering moment has become even tougher to handle, as there is no looking away anymore. It's as if I now have the responsibility to not hide behind a story that lets me feel better.

[Anastacia42]

Oh dear! Please don't write a book. Short & sweet. Be concise, but clear.

I will have to read all of that later.

Thank you. Oh, and you're welcome.

[P5yx]

Oh dear! Please don't write a book. Short & sweet. Be concise, but clear.

My apologies. I wanted to provide a better understanding of my current situation, so that you can rule out my understanding to be simply based on a new believe system. As I said, there is something that feels off. But I cannot pin point it. I will keep in mind and answer as you'd demanded in the future.

Oh, and you're welcome.

Thanks for having me :).

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Sorry if that sounded "demanding," but all those words do show that a lot of what is going on is still only intellectual. Still, you sound like you had a shift. No, it is not always some big bang of an event. It can be *very* subtle.

Please watch these:

t won't be 24/7. There's likely to.be a "honeymoon period," and then what we call, "got it, lost it," as untrue beliefs come up to be questioned.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4


There is no "self," at all, ever, so it cannot possibly "still be there." LOOK and you will see this clearly. There is awareness, for lack of a better term, but please do not try to make that into some "self."

We're going to back up and get some basics, ok?

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[P5yx]

Hey Stacy,

nothing to be sorry for. If my words have shown that a lot is still merely intellectual, I'm more than happy to have found out about. That was the main goal of joining LU in the first place. Very happy to start over. :)

Both of the videos you've proposed resonated wonderfully. Thank you.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Very clear! :)

[Anastacia42]

Okay, great.

Let's practice that.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[P5yx]

Hey Stacy,

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Seeing the keyboard, simply= image/color
Hearing the clock, simply = sound
Feeling the body, simply = sensation
Seeing the coffee mug, simply = image/color
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Seeing the computer screen, simply = image/color
Feeling the hands on the keyboard, simply = sensation
Thought about a friend, simply = thought
Hearing a voice, simply = sound
Feeling the chair, simply = sensation
Seeing a house out the window, simply = image/color
Thought about this exercise, simply = thought
Hearing the coffee mug put down onto the table, simply = sound

[Anastacia42]

This one goes a little further:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[P5yx]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

No, both are just descriptions.

2. What is here without labels?

Right at the moment: colors/images, sound, sensations, thoughts (not the content)

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They just describe experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

No difference was noticed.

[Anastacia42]

Great.

Let's look at noticing the body Sensations.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[P5yx]

What is found?

The last time I felt a strong fear of abandonment, I lied to my partner that everything is fine in order to prevent having an argument or burdening her with my fears. Another situation was lying about how I felt about an experience, which is important for a close friend. Having said my true opinion would have certainly triggered her, so I said something more in line with her opinion.

Remembering thoughts about these situations brings sensations in head, throat, chest, stomach. They could be labeled as "contracting", "pulsing", "tightening".

Also there is an intuition at the moment of lying. As would someone look at me and pointing out that this wasn't really authentic but fear-based behavior. Kind of a knowing that I have acted inauthentically. However, this might only be the mind's interpretation of the sensations I described above.

it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

If you refer to the exercise right before this one, I did not feel any differences when labeling experiences without the "I am".

Do you see that?

Yes, all clear. Body sensations are just that, sensations. All interpretations of such sensations (e.g., emotions) are only labels attached to these sensations.

[Anastacia42]

Okay good

did not feel any differences when labeling experiences without the "I am".

Check this every now and then, because it is a lie *with* "I am." We're looking at with "I am" having some tension..

Without it, you may not notice anything. Or you may feel expansion.


Here is another exercise that makes it clear that labels are not the things they refer to. They are merely the content of thought that we made up.

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?


Loving,

[P5yx]

Check this every now and then, because it is a lie *with* "I am." We're looking at with "I am" having some tension..

Yes, you were right! During the exercise a few days ago, I didn't notice a difference. But I just came home from a walk where I did the exercise again and now it could be felt. There is indeed a subtle contraction with using the words "I", "my", "mine". And also a subtle expansion when a sentence/thought is formulated without these words. Very subtle, however.

Moreover, repeating the exercise brought back some memories. I indeed have noticed this phenomena in the past already. I didn't remember during the exercise, as I would have described it differently (although "contracting" describes it pretty well). Before, I would have described it as a certain feeling of egoism that hits you when putting attention on this false sense of self. That feeling of egoism is a contraction, however (couldn't see the relation).

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

In DE it is just the seeing of colors. Not even "red" or the "light-blue" background, as these would again just be labels.

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

The "red" color is seen/experienced. The label has nothing to do with the underlying "reality", which the label tries to describe.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No, they have not. All labels are just descriptions agreed on by a society. "Reality" would not change by altering any labels.

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

In DE labels just arise as thought content. They might refer to an experience but also refer to other thoughts. For the latter, they suggest something that is not here now.

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

No, "green-ness" is just a word/label attached to the experience of the "red" color. It has nothing to do with the actual experience of the "red" color.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No, attaching another label to the experience does not change it in DE.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Primarily there is no effect caused by a label. However, a label as "bad" might color an experience in a way that the inner emotional state might be influenced.