Greetings!

[poppyseed]

Hi Blanca
Good! You’ve now seen that thoughts don’t block anything, no self can be found, no thinker, no understander can be found, seeing happens without concepts
Now we make this even simpler.

It's more like my attention (peripheral or direct) on them can be amplified or dimmed based on thoughts. For example, I am very focused on typing this response, so I don't really register anything my other senses are picking up. I'm not sure that is relevant to the act of looking, though.

Actually this is a good time to look at the idea of focus and attention. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does, focus on focusing, attention itself.

Do you move it, or does it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?

A level deeper… Is there actually something called “attention” that can be found? Can it be seen? Felt? Located?
Or is there just seeing, hearing, …? IAre there attention AND experience, or just THIS?
You say attention focuses on “one thing” instead of another. Check this:
Without labels, are there separate “things” at all?
Or is there just one seamless experience (THIS)?
For example, right now are there “typing” + “sound” + “sensation” separate things?
Or is that separation created by thought (labels like apples and cups of coffee)?
Look directly! Without using words, can anything be divided? Is there something to focus on versus something else? Or is there just a whole, undivided experiencing with thought carving it into parts and calling that “focus” or “attention”?
Is there attention moving between separate things, or one seamless experience including thoughts describing it as divided? Without labels what is there to focus ON?
Don’t think about it. Look and report what is actually found.

Seeing happens, but the understanding is more about the concepts that underlie the act of looking (i.e. the very ideas that are expressed in enlightenment quotes or anything else).

Check this carefully! A thought appears “look” or “pay attention”. Is that anything more than a thought?
Now see what happens next… Seeing is already happening, hearing is already happening, sensation is already happening. Did the thought “look” create any of that? Can athought do anything? Or did it just appear alongside what was already here (first thoughts)?
Look very closely :) Is “looking” something you are doing? Or is it a thought about looking plus experience already happening?
So check. Is there a “looker” doing something called looking, or just experience and sometimes a thought saying “look”? Is thinking the thought "LOOK" in your control? Orjust appears when it appears?
Don’t answer conceptually. Report what is actually found.

when I look, I don’t see a self

Is that dependent on “attention”/ effort /looking?
Or is it simply the case?
Check this! Even when you are not “looking”, does a self suddenly appear somewhere? Can it ever be found? Or is it always absent?
Is the self sometimes there, sometimes not? Or is it never there at all?
Love
Rali

[Blanca]

Hi Rali - Apologies for the delayed response!

Do you move it, or does it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?

I meditate regularly, so I'm familiar with this dynamic. I typically use the breath or a flame as a meditative object, but I've never watched focus itself. When I did today, I found that I do not move it. It's not something under my control. Not even a little bit.

A level deeper… Is there actually something called “attention” that can be found? Can it be seen? Felt? Located?
Or is there just seeing, hearing, …? IAre there attention AND experience, or just THIS?

This one I have a tougher time see as true. There is such a thing as direct awareness and peripheral awareness. I understand there is the "thusness" of awareness moment-by-moment, but simultaneously, we're running peripheral awareness. Though when I look for any of it, I don't see it directly. I don't know. For some reason, this is a difficult one for me to get.

Without labels, are there separate “things” at all?
Or is there just one seamless experience (THIS)?
For example, right now are there “typing” + “sound” + “sensation” separate things?
Or is that separation created by thought (labels like apples and cups of coffee)?

The act of focusing my attention on something seems to break it up into parts, but otherwise, I think the experience is just one seamless thing.

I think one of the issues I'm having is that when I look, it still feels like something effortful that I'm doing. It doesn't feel like seeing or hearing, where it's happening and there's no separation between the experiencer and the experienced. The looking for a boundary or a lack of boundary seems to require me to actively do something.

Now see what happens next… Seeing is already happening, hearing is already happening, sensation is already happening. Did the thought “look” create any of that? Can a thought do anything? Or did it just appear alongside what was already here (first thoughts)?

It appears to be a thought that precedes the experience. But I think the paradox my mind keeps coming back to is your instruction to look. Because it seems to imply that it's something I need to do that I'm not already doing.

Check this! Even when you are not “looking”, does a self suddenly appear somewhere? Can it ever be found? Or is it always absent?
Is the self sometimes there, sometimes not? Or is it never there at all?

The self doesn't quite disappear, but it does seem to not be present when I'm really focused on something.

I don't know Rali, I had a really difficult time with this for some reason. :/

B

[poppyseed]

Hi Blanca

looking feels effortful… like something I’m doing

Look carefully. That feeling of effort, what is it, exactly? A sensation? A thought saying “I’m doing this”?
Check… A thought appears “I need to look”. Does that thought do anything? Or does it just appear? Did the thought move the eyes? Did the eyes listen to the thought and moved? Do the eyes have ears? Do the thoughts have hands?
You think “looking” is something special. It’s not. Right now, seeing is happening, hearing is happening, sensation is happening. That is already it.
“Looking” is just a thought pointing to what is already happening. Nothing extra is required.

it seems like something I need to do that I’m not already doing

Check this! Without doing anything… is seeing happening? Is hearing happening? Iis sensation happening? What else is there to “look” for?

… the paradox my mind keeps coming back to is your instruction to look.

If there is no Blanca, where is Rali? You are still describing this as one self talking to another. Apply the cup of coffee example to Rali. What is actually there

seeing what Rali has written, simply = seeing (colour)
Rali is there and I’m here, simply = thinking (thought)
understanding what Rali means, simply = thinking (thought)
looking at what she is pointing to, simply = hearing, seeing, feeling, tasting, smelling (that are already happening), and thinking (reflecting that new view of reality)
writing a report to Rali, simply = thinking (thought)

So are there instructions where to look, followed by looking (with what, remember the blackness exercise)? Or are there one thought (labelled Rali’s) "talking to another (labelled Blanca’s) followed by thoughts ABOUT what is really happening, understanding the empty nature of thoughts - thoughts talking about things that do not exist inherently but only as labels?
Is there anything else happening (new) that is not just thought self-organising, focusing more on DE instead of old stories? Has the seeing changed? Has the hearing changed? The feeling/sensations? Just the labels/the story …

Please let me know if you want to explore “others” in more detail!

There is such a thing as direct awareness and peripheral awareness … Though when I look for any of it, I don't see it directly.

Let’s see this through properly.
This “awareness”, can you see it, touch it, locate it anywhere? Or is there only seeing, hearing, sensation, thought?
Is “awareness” something in addition to experience? Or is it just a word used to describe experience?
Remember the blackness exercise. Is there “seeing blackness” + “awareness of seeing blackness”? Or just seeing?
Same with sound… is there “hearing” + “awareness of hearing”? Or just hearing? Where is the line that marks where one ends and the other begin - point to it???
Can you ever find awareness separate from seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, thinking?
Or is “awareness” just another label pointing to the fact that these are already happening?
Don’t try to understand this. Don’t try to remember spiritual lingo. Look.
Can awareness be found as something real? Or only the experiences themselves?

the self doesn’t quite disappear

OK…Look carefully. At this moment, can you find a self?
Not a feeling. Not a thought. Something actual. Where is it?
You say it disappears when focused. Good. That already shows it’s not stable. But does it ever actually exist? Or is it always a thought plus a sensation appearing and disappearing? Is it more than a wrong label applied to stuff that already has labels? LOOK!
"When focused", simply = thoughts (about DE)
"when not focused", simply = thoughts (not aboout DE)

But where is the self except in thought content? Does it exist at all as something else but a pronoun in a sentence?

Here is an exercise. It takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper. This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing. For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example:
I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.
Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:
Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following questions:
Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Love
Rali