To see

[Moon88]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That I have no image of myself in my mind. No image to protect and defend. That I don't feel superior or inferior to anyone based on their looks, knowledge, money. That I don't feel sad when I see the clumps of hair coming out of my head in the shower - I am losing hair. That I am no longer motivated by what people think of me.

What are you looking for at LU?
I think there is something called awakening where you see that you are not separate from rest of reality and lay down the insane struggle of self-improvement. I have had enough of the drama. I don't want to lie in my death bed thinking I spent my life and energy chasing imaginary things like power and prestige. I don't want to be fearful all the time. I understand that you can provide some guidance on how to see that one is not separate from rest of reality. Please guide me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't know what to expect. I have been working on the pointers from Christiane Michelberger's books on how to see that there is no separate self but no shift in perspective has happened. I still feel very much I am inside and that the world is outside. I want some more pointers.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have read a lot of spiritual books but nothing permanent has shifted. But I still feel compelled to look.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

You can do this. It's unpredictable & we can't control when or how you see.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Moon88]

Hi Stacy,

Many thanks for your reply. Please call me Pri. I am in Pacific Standard Time. I have read and understood the disclaimer.

How will life change?

I don't know. I hope it is easier.

How will you change?

I hope I will not care about what I think what others think about me. I don't know really.

What will be different?

I won't care about the superficial things. Looks, money, prestige, other's opinion. I am tired of caring about the superficial things. I hope I won't be afraid anymore.

What is missing?

Enjoyment, authenticity. The trivial things occupy life. I don't feel like doing things anymore. I want to understand what I want to do and do it in the few years I have left. And not what I am expected to do. Or do things because I am afraid. Most of my life, I have let fear and others(vanity, competition) drive me.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Pri

That's a lot to expect. Some of that will be true, but this is just a beginning. There's a lot of unraveling to do once you see there's no "self. "

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Moon88]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Hi Stacy, I think I intellectually understand the statement. As in I exist and rest all (chair, other people) is stuff I sense - which I can't tell for sure if they really exist or not, apart from my sensing. But I don't feel it in my bones, if that makes sense.

Thanks,
Pri

[Anastacia42]

Good, yes. Most people show up here with only an intellectuals understanding. That question also checks to see if any fear comes up. Only fear and expectations keep you out of the present moment and able to see that there is no self.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Moon88]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I think you are asking me not to answer anything from memory. But to answer from direct experience at the moment. Agreed. Direct experience seems to be more valid.

Thanks,
Pri

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Let's practice.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Moon88]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Hi Stacy,

Sitting on a park bench

Trees, lake, mountain, sky, birds- image
Wind blowing- sensation of coldness
Sensations against, back, behind and feet.
Images of legs, shoes, chest , abdomen and hands
Birds, people, train- sounds
Chest going up and down with breathing- image
Breathing - sensation?
Tongue against teeth, lips pressed together- sensation
Legs crossed together- sensation
Running belt against chest- sensation

Sitting outside on the porch.

Trees, cars, grey sky, houses- images
Bulldozers- sound
Back pressing against wall, butt on ground, feet on ground- sensation
Breathing-sensation, sound
Airplane flying overhead- sound
Lips pressed together- sensation
Body without the head- image

Thanks,
Pritha

[Anastacia42]

Mostly good.

Coldness is a label. It's only Sensation.

Back, behind & feet are labels

How would you correct this one? Look at the examples

Images of legs, shoes, chest , abdomen and hands

Yes, breathing is Sensation.

Loving

[Moon88]

Images of legs, shoes, chest , abdomen and hands

Legs, shoes, chest, abdomen and hands- image/color

Thanks,
Pritha

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good. Here's the next step.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Moon88]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Describing the experience using I seems redundant. The description Without I seems to get the point across.

2. What is here without labels?
Just sense experiences?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Just describe it.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
No. Maybe without I seemed to be more peaceful. Could have been just because I was doing this exercise in a park and the park is very beautiful.

[Anastacia42]

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I read these on my phone and require this highlighting. Later other guides will review some answers and it would be polite to make it easy for them.

Thank you

[Moon88]

Sorry. Will quote all questions from now onwards. Here you go.

1.

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Describing the experience using I seems redundant. The description Without I seems to get the point across.

2.

What is here without labels?

Just sense experiences?

3.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Just describe it.

4.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

No. Maybe without I seemed to be more peaceful. Could have been just because I was doing this exercise in a park and the park is very beautiful.
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