Could Elad be my guide?

[Xarelta]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self-help community has taught us that you control your own destiny, that you create your own reality, and are responsible for everything in your life. Now I can see that I really have no control over anything. It makes sense to me that there is no inherent separate self. However, my previous conditioning causes doubt to creep in.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a personal exploration of the truth. I’m not even sure what the truth is, but I want to look and see if I can find it myself. I sense that truth is not a thought but something else. Something known… but do I know it yet?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am hoping for an opportunity to be guided outside of my comfort zone and to look where I haven’t thought to look before. Goodness knows I’ve tried on my own and will continue to do so. Life presents many opportunities for questions to arise.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? It is taken me a year and a half of reading about inquiry, awakening, and enlightenment in order to be able to understand that I have to LOOK! For the longest time I understood looking to mean an intellectual understanding of the topic. Ha ha! I also understand that looking is not a momentary glimpse, but a muscle that must be exercised. And, I am trying to exercise a little bit every day :-)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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[Elad]

Hello Xarelta, nice to meet you, Elad here. I'd be happy to work with you, I sense readiness and quite a lot of clarity already in your intro text. What may call you? And do we know each other, or what compelled you to ask working with me?


Below I share with you some standard info and questions to get our collaboration going:

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on
experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS
through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK
carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift
in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, perception, attention,
thought, and the sense of being a witness to all that arises in present experience,
including thoughts arising and going. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual
Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the
story we tell ourselves, or even more to the point, seeing the empty nature of the story. For this
process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought,
imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving
spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual.


Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you
have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

And finally, The LU Terms and Conditions

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

And now, some housekeeping helpful hints:

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being
answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Use
watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a
clear dialogue around the questions and answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then
copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the LU
system software wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life
happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do so as well.

I recommend putting aside all other non-dual and spiritual materials during this process as they will often become
distractions from the focus of this process.

Make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the bottom left corner of your post
page, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner or wrench. When you click
on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be
sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click it again it should show now
“ Unsubscribe topic”. DON'T CLICK ON IT AGAIN OR IT WILL UNSUBSRIBE YOU.

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.

First, let’s look at your expectations (or review from the initial questions more in depth) from this:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Notice the color of these questions. Moving forward please always answer all questions in blue.

----------

As you can see we often start this process in a somewhat standardized way. Soon however, it will get a unique life and taste of its own.

[Xarelta]

Hello Elad,

Thank you for agreeing to guide me. Please call me Amy! It's very nice to meet and you and really look forward to working with you. We do not know each other but I have really enjoyed your interactions with others in the forum and archives that have led to Liberation.

I have read the FAQ, disclaimer and the terms and conditions and I agree to all of them.

I suppose I will jump right in now if that's okay with you. It has taken me a while to get back to My computer due to traveling. I'm so glad to be home :)

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

A year ago I would have said my expectations are to get rid of fear. I suffer because I fear fear, which seems to create a self propagating loop of suffering. Now, I don't have that expectation. I really don't know what to expect... Or have any understanding of what it will be like.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

Life will be no different than it is now but I anticipate that the experience of my internal world will be different

3. What do you want not to happen?

I don't want to fail at seeing through the illusion but I am also OK if I do fail which seems weird to say I just sensed that to hold on too tightly to an outcome might add to my suffering?!?

4. What are you hoping for?

I am hoping to have a fun exploration of direct experience excited to see where it leads!

5. What is
missing

?

I interpret this question to mean What is missing in me? There is nothing missing in life but I think that the thing that is missing in me is acceptance.

I can't tell you how excited I am to be working with you. I really appreciate your time and efforts. I know that this is a volunteer activity and a gift to me :)

Sincerely, Amy

[Elad]

Hello Amy, I sense a beautiful openness in this message - lets go :)

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

A year ago I would have said my expectations are to get rid of fear. I suffer because I fear fear, which seems to create a self propagating loop of suffering. Now, I don't have that expectation. I really don't know what to expect... Or have any understanding of what it will be like.

Great. Always helpful to see and let go of expectations, just be open to discover. And yes, fear will not disappear categorically.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

Life will be no different than it is now but I anticipate that the experience of my internal world will be different

Fair.

How do antificpate the internal world will be different?

3. What do you want not to happen?

I don't want to fail at seeing through the illusion but I am also OK if I do fail which seems weird to say I just sensed that to hold on too tightly to an outcome might add to my suffering?!?

Good attitude.

4. What are you hoping for?

I am hoping to have a fun exploration of direct experience excited to see where it leads!

Perfect

5. What is
missing

?

I interpret this question to mean What is missing in me? There is nothing missing in life but I think that the thing that is missing in me is acceptance.

Acceptance of what is missing?

I can't tell you how excited I am to be working with you. I really appreciate your time and efforts. I know that this is a volunteer activity and a gift to me :)

Thank you for the gracious words, happy to embark on this journey with you.

[Xarelta]

Good morning!

How do antificpate the internal world will be different?

I anticipate my internal world will be different in the following ways: I suffer because of thoughts. Perhaps I will not hold so tightly to those beliefs in the future? Some thoughts I can easily catch and see how absurd they are to believe. When I do this, everything feels light that thought dissolves and leaves me alone. But others feel very, very true. I don't see the belief as thoughts. Those thoughts seem to be so heavy and they linger. They seem to chase me and stay with me. Those thoughts usually involve wanting me keep safe or my loved ones safe. So perhaps my internal world will change in a way that is accepting of all thoughts?

Acceptance of what is missing?

If I can accept all thoughts, feelings, and emotions. perhaps my inner world becomes peaceful? When I resist the way things are currently I seem to suffer. This seems absolutely absurd. How can things be any different than the way they are currently?

After answering these questions, I felt like I wasn't really looking carefully and I went back to the original question of what is missing and sat with that question. I cannot find anything that is missing. It's a very weird feeling and I keep going back to it. The mind keeps arguing....but there are things you want etc....but the trueness of right now keeps coming back in and feels like this is all of "it". How could there be anything really missing? It feels weird to say but I really can't find anything and I am going to keeping feeling this out today.

Happy Tuesday to you !!

Sincerely, Amy

[Elad]

Beautiful Amy,

Yes, explore this more, and write me what happens. Also write me if any questions about this come up.

[Xarelta]

Good morning Elad,

I have been sitting with the question "what is missing" for the last day or so.

I still can't really find anything that is missing. There are things that I want to happen or don't want to happen but how can I say that there is something missing? Life brings what it brings and sometimes it causes suffering. The suffering comes when I resist what is happening. That resistance seems to be inside of me. Is it a thought? An emotion? I don't know really but man is it uncomfortable at times. Sometimes I try to think "can I accept how this is making me feel right now?" and I guess the answer is "no" at times. But even that is funny because it is already happening.

I hope all of that makes sense. I hope I am looking correctly. I do get wrapped up in thoughts quite a bit:-)

As always, I have much gratitude for you.

Sincerely,
Amy

[Elad]

Amy, you are doing great.

Now look:

Is any of what happens - including resistance, including thoughts about how to deal with resistance - initiated by you, is any of it truly yours?

In the conventional sense you can say resistance happens in "your body", it is conventionally speaking Amys thoughts and sensations, not Elads.

However, are any of Amy's thoughts and sensations truly hers, truly initiated by a separate self, truly controlled by a self or chosen by a self in any way?Or is it the truth that it all just is nature/the mystery unfolding in the moment - all of it?

Don't try to "get the right answer" just look for what is directly experienced before thoughts about it.

[Xarelta]

Good morning Elad,

Is any of what happens - including resistance, including thoughts about how to deal with resistance - initiated by you, is any of it truly yours?

None of it is truly initiated by me. It comes whether I want it to or not. I’m so conditioned to believe I am in control, that I can fix things, make things better in this life that I am always on that track. None of it is mine, it just comes. Then, I judge myself for it being there, as if I could have prevented it or felt different about it in some way. The more I look at this, the lighter I feel, but my mind still argues - I must have control over something. I don’t feel like a puppet with no agency.

However, are any of Amy's thoughts and sensations truly hers, truly initiated by a separate self, truly controlled by a self or chosen by a self in any way?Or is it the truth that it all just is nature/the mystery unfolding in the moment - all of it?

Most thoughts and sensations do not seem to be initiated by me. But then I wonder about who is it that chooses to look for the “good” in difficult situations? Is that chosen by me or does that happen all on its own? It feels like it takes effort to do this. It feels like I have been taught to do this. Like I have a choice.

I felt like I was getting somewhere at the beginning of this post but now I’m in my thoughts and it feels more confusing. It feels better to look, it feels worse to think.

Happy weekend to you Elad. I wish you much rest.

Sincerely,
Amy

[Elad]

Hi Amy, all is moving well :)

None of it is truly initiated by me. It comes whether I want it to or not. I’m so conditioned to believe I am in control, that I can fix things, make things better in this life that I am always on that track. None of it is mine, it just comes. Then, I judge myself for it being there, as if I could have prevented it or felt different about it in some way. The more I look at this, the lighter I feel,

Right on.

but my mind still argues - I must have control over something.

This habitual conditioning does not need to change. Just SEE in real time it is another spontaneous unchosen activity.

I don’t feel like a puppet with no agency.

Right that would be dark....... Feeling like a helpless puppet would mean still believing in self, just now a helpless puppet one. We are going beyond such fantasies, to the simple truth of what is here and what isn't. Just keep looking at that.

Is there santa claus here?
Is there a unicorn here?
Is there a self here?

Just look again and again, and allow what is seen (and not seen) to land. This is not about thinking right or getting the right answer. It is about seeing in real time. Only.

But then I wonder about who is it that chooses to look for the “good” in difficult situations? Is that chosen by me or does that happen all on its own? It feels like it takes effort to do this. It feels like I have been taught to do this. Like I have a choice.

No one is contesting that skills exist, attention exist, things like focusing constructively exist, good will and wholesome effort exist, and can be trained. It just that when you look closely none of it truly is initiated by a real separate you and none of it refers to a real separate you.

The "you" is just a label that functions for pragmatic thinking and communication, all of which happens by itself. Like the word "here". It is very useful. But it doesn't refer to any real enduring exact point in space. "Here" is a functional word for communication, existing only in pragmatic contexts of thinking and communication. Same with "I".

Try do some deliberate tasks, and then look if there is actually a "self" that is doing it:

Solve 3 times 4 times 5 plus 1. While it happens pay attention: Is there a self separate from the activity that is needed for it to happen?

Choose what you would rather have right now a free Iran or America back to a healthier democracy. Look how the choosing happens. Whatever happens, look if there is actually a self outside of it that makes it happen, or it just happens as it does?

I felt like I was getting somewhere at the beginning of this post but now I’m in my thoughts and it feels more confusing. It feels better to look, it feels worse to think.

Yes exactly. Looking leads to awakening. Thinking at best leads to development of philosophical, scientific and conventionally pragmatic skills, useful in some contexts, but certainly not awakening.

[Xarelta]

Good morning Elad,

Hope you had a wonderful weekend:-)

Is there santa claus here?
Is there a unicorn here?
Is there a self here?

No, there is no Santa Claus here, or unicorn here, or self that I can find. The third one is harder for me. I keep feeling like there is a sense of self, not when I look, but when I feel fear. I keep feeling the need to protect a self/me, etc.

Solve 3 times 4 times 5 plus 1. While it happens pay attention: Is there a self separate from the activity that is needed for it to happen?

No, no separate self is needed. Just this brain which has been trained to solve problems.

Choose what you would rather have right now a free Iran or America back to a healthier democracy. Look how the choosing happens. Whatever happens, look if there is actually a self outside of it that makes it happen, or it just happens as it does?

The choosing happens all on it's own, based on previous events that I have not chosen either. There is not a self that makes it happen, the choosing just feels like part of life. I see this, but there is a part of me that wants to protect. My conditioning says that the self needs protecting. Argh!!

I am going to keep looking at choices to see if there is someone that is making them. I can feel that I am not where I need to be regarding this. There is some resistance to seeing/feeling the truth of this. I hope that makes sense.

Thank you as always,
Amy

[Elad]

Hey Amy!

No, there is no Santa Claus here, or unicorn here, or self that I can find. The third one is harder for me. I keep feeling like there is a sense of self, not when I look, but when I feel fear. I keep feeling the need to protect a self/me, etc.

Good to acknowledge. Don't try to get rid of the fear. Instead thank it for doing its job the best it can. And now look:

1) What is the fear afraid will happen if it is not there to protect?

2) Look behind the fear, look what the fear is pointing to - what is it?

No, no separate self is needed. Just this brain which has been trained to solve problems.

Yes

The choosing happens all on it's own, based on previous events that I have not chosen either. There is not a self that makes it happen, the choosing just feels like part of life.

Yes

I see this,

3) Do you see this or it is just seen?

This is not a rethorical question. Look.

but there is a part of me that wants to protect. My conditioning says that the self needs protecting. Argh!!

Your conditioning or just conditioning?

Again, don't resist the fear and need to protect. In fact it is helpful. Some people succeed in convincing themselves that there is no self by ignoring and surpressing the sense of self. This is not helpful. Instead it is good the sense of self comes up. Only when it is there is there a really good opportunity to look at it and really be curious what it consist of, what it actually is.

I am going to keep looking at choices to see if there is someone that is making them. I can feel that I am not where I need to be regarding this. There is some resistance to seeing/feeling the truth of this. I hope that makes sense.

The honestly here is key.

4) So what is the fear of what will happen, if it is seen that choices just happen mysteriously, "chosen by life,, chosen by the mystery, chosen by infinite causes and conditions" ? (different ways of speaking of mystery beyond thought).


Again, don't try to make this go away. Always only explore with curiosity and see what is. Forcing does not help here at all.

[Xarelta]

Good morning Elad,

This was a hard one. I've tried my best so here goes. If I were to give myself a grade on a test for these questions, it would not be an "A", lol.

What is the fear afraid will happen if it is not there to protect?

If the fear is not there to protect, the imagined feared event might occur. There is a physical sensation, thought and emotion that are associated with the fear. The crazy thing is that those things are already being experienced when the fear comes up. So it does seem like fear is trying to protect against something that is already there. This seems insane when I really look at it. The fear is right NOW.

Look behind the fear, look what the fear is pointing to - what is it?

Fear seems to be pointing to a feeling of a big fat "no" to something that is a current thought, sensation or emotion. And, I feel like I am the one resisting what ever it is that I am afraid of... When you told me to just allow the fear to be there and not fight it, there is a relaxation. Less resistance. Almost as if the resistance is the problem rather than the fear.

Do you see this or it is just seen?

It is just seen.

So what is the fear of what will happen, if it is seen that choices just happen mysteriously, "chosen by life,, chosen by the mystery, chosen by infinite causes and conditions" ? (different ways of speaking of mystery beyond thought).

If I could see and believe that choices just happen mysteriously, chosen by life/mystery, I think fear would relax. It feels like I have to keep reminding myself of this. I need to keep looking at it.

Thank you for your time Elad!

Sincerely,
Amy

[Elad]

And, I feel like I am the one resisting what ever it is that I am afraid of...

Who or what is this "I in control"? How is the belief in this "I" held without any evidence of an I ?

Don't answer with speculations. Use the questions to look.

When you told me to just allow the fear to be there and not fight it, there is a relaxation. Less resistance. Almost as if the resistance is the problem rather than the fear.

Right on. Now allow both the fear and the resistance. There is really no choice. The suffering is coming from the confused belief that there is a choice. See how this belief is held with all evidence to the contrary.

How is the belief in the controller of thoughts, resistance and fear held even though they clearly work in ways that are not chosen, that goes against what is wanted and aimed for?

So what is the fear of what will happen, if it is seen that choices just happen mysteriously, "chosen by life,, chosen by the mystery, chosen by infinite causes and conditions" ? (different ways of speaking of mystery beyond thought).

If I could see and believe that choices just happen mysteriously, chosen by life/mystery, I think fear would relax. It feels like I have to keep reminding myself of this. I need to keep looking at it.

Who needs to keep looking? See that it is just a habitual story that creates a sense of control.

You cant make this realization happen by effort and force. Chill. See how everything just is as it is. No controller. Relax into that. See how nothing is lost with this relaxation.

[Xarelta]

Good afternoon,

Who or what is this "I in control"? How is the belief in this "I" held without any evidence of an I ?

The belief that there is an "I" seems to be present in thoughts. When I keep looking for an "I", there is not one that can be found. It feels more like a habitual protection of something.

How is the belief in the controller of thoughts, resistance and fear held even though they clearly work in ways that are not chosen, that goes against what is wanted and aimed for?

It feels like thoughts, fear, resistance happen all on their own- then a thought comes in "I don't like this" or "I don't want this" and then there is a feeling of needing to do something to push it all away. That seems to be where a sense of self comes on board.

Who needs to keep looking? See that it is just a habitual story that creates a sense of control.

The story seems so strong. It feels like it will take time to look at the events in my life to catch the story. It's still there for sure. I am trying to relax. But it's true- I am always trying to control, control, control-- it's an effort to protect.

Thank you as always,
Amy