Becoming No One

[NoPerson]

This is a short check in. Not much to report. I continued with butt-chair as well as with reading the "Gateless Gatecrashers". Can't really come up with anything else to write about, right now.

[NoPerson]

Hi,
I continued with butt-chair. I also started reading "Enlightening Quotes".

I can see that there is no "doer." However, there is still the illusion that there is someone observing everything.
I tried to look for that "someone". There was the feeling that there is an entity inside my body that is receiving sensations, that is seeing, hearing etc. When I really tried to figure out where that "I" object is, I couldn't say. Somehow I had the thought, that it's just a thought. But it is not, yet, obvious and self-evident.

I feel this is exactly where I have to keep looking.

[Anastacia42]

There is awareness, but that is not a "self. "

Loving,

[NoPerson]

Just did 20 min of butt-chair. This is what I experienced:

Could focus much more today. Not so many distracting thoughts were appearing.
I tried to rest in the effortlessness, just staying with the sensation of the butt.
I decided to not actively think about or investigate the idea of a separation, but instead just stay with the sensation as much as possible. I realized that I cannot decide to actively think about something. This is just a thought in itself. Thoughts just arise without anyone controlling them. But I can decide not to be interested in the thought, can't I, can who? Gosh, that's so paradoxical.
Anyway, there were periods where there were no thoughts about self or "I". This is the lightest feeling, almost like bliss. Rooftop window was slightly open, hearing sounds of raindrops, sensation of fresh air on skin (of course this is already interpretation and labeling).

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

realized that I cannot decide to actively think about something. This is just a thought in itself. Thoughts just arise without anyone controlling them.

Yes. true.

Can you really decide anything?

Let's look at this some more:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

And...

This is the lightest feeling, almost like bliss.

Yes! That sounds like the shift in perception we're looking for. And that is the truth feeling.

Loving,

[NoPerson]

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

They just appeared. I noticed a sense of searching for properties. But that was just that the thought "what are the properties of water?" appeared. And then some thoughts with properties of water arose/poped up by themselves.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Actually, during counting, a thought appeared that said "I am going to choose water". I did not choose that this thought should come.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

No, I could not experience a mental function. The thought to choose water just appeared. I don't know how.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Sometimes something feels right or sometimes wrong. Not sure, if this isn't also just a sensation + a thought. In any case, we do not choose to feel the feeling, and neither does the feeling choose anything.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, so are you or your thoughts in control of anything,? Or does life arise on its own & we make up a thought story saying some "I" did it?

Sometimes something feels right or sometimes wrong.

The truth & lie feelings we talked about. Yes.

Loving

[NoPerson]

Okay, so are you or your thoughts in control of anything,? Or does life arise on its own & we make up a thought story saying some "I" did it?

My thoughts are not in control. A thought cannot "do" something. Something happens and then there is a thought about it. Or a thought arises, like e.g. "I am going to choose A", then taking the cup happens, then another thought arises "I took the cup". However, the thoughts did not control what happened.
Am I in control then? No, thoughts arising and reaching out for the cup just happens. There is no entity that controls these things.

This is hilarious, a very good exercise.

[Anastacia42]

Yes it's a lot of fun.

Can you say 100% that there is no separate self?

If so, we have some traditional questions. Oher guides will read them and may have questions for you.

Loving

[NoPerson]

Can you say 100% that there is no separate self?

I cannot express the desire to answer with yes to that question.

However, I can't say with 100% honesty and certainty that there is no separate self.

I logically understand that there is none. I do not find one when I look closely.

So, can I say the opposite, that there is a separate self? No, not at all. It feels like a lie. And this is frustrating and confusing. I feel like the idiot who has searched all the jacket's pockets for the keys, and still can't see that they are not there.

The reason I can't say it with 100% honesty and certainty is that I expect it to feel different to really see this. There are still stories about me in thoughts, that I cannot let go. Mainly problems. I'd expect that they wouldn't feel so personal and that they wouldn't be so sticky. There is not a very noticeable shift in perception, nor is there any realization of non-duality. I feel I need to take more close looks and investigations to see through the illusion that was enforced by decades of conditioning.

[NoPerson]

I keep constantly observing this in everyday situations. And the result is always the same, I can't find a doer. Everything just happens by itself. There may be a thought of making a plan, like I am going to do "this thing" later. And later I do this thing and I would not have done it if I hadn't had the thought. This creates a very strong illusion of being in control. But the initial thought just popped up by itself. And me doing whatever because there was this thought does not mean there is a doer. The doing also just happens. The thought does not control it.

However, the implications of this do not seem to have hit me. Even though it seems to be obvious, it does not change much. There are still thoughts about "me" and I get attached to them, believing the story that they tell, at least occasionally. On Tuesday, when I did the drink exercise, it was different. When I reported back to you, there was this extremely light feeling again. I had to laugh about the realization until I cried. It felt like full realization, but it was temporary. Like a glimpse.

It is also possible that the seeing is done, and I just expect too much of it. Maybe the realization of the implications is a slow and gradual process for me? Maybe things are unravelling already slowly, right now? Not a big shift, but many very subtle ones?

[Anastacia42]

it was different. When I reported back to you, there was this extremely light feeling again. I had to laugh about the realization until I cried. It felt like full realization, but it was temporary. Like a glimpse.

Yes, that was probably a shift

Have you watched the videos on how it isn't likely to be stable, but will come & go?


Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning. It will not be 24/7.It is l ather, rinse, repeat.

Every time you believe an untrue thought, you will "lose it) until you see through that lie. Self is a major lie & many others are based on it.

Does that help?

Loving,

[NoPerson]

Yes, thank you, this does help.

I guess, there is this old belief system of the separate self which is starting to fall apart very slowly. And on the other hand, there is the new understanding that there is no separate self. And the disparity between the two needs to resolve over time. Yeah, the videos help to trust in that process and to understand that it's fine.

[Anastacia42]

We often compare it to seeing that there is no Santa Claus. Once you know, you know. Even if you see a guy in a red suit, you don't believe in Santa Claus again.

Can you see that?

Loving

[NoPerson]

We often compare it to seeing that there is no Santa Claus. Once you know, you know. Even if you see a guy in a red suit, you don't believe in Santa Claus again.

Can you see that?

Yes, I do see that.

From my experience I would say, that it is possible when not aware of it, that there are still old thinking patterns arising. But they become exposed as lies the moment, I become aware of them.