Not seeking - guiding

[AtticusZen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Somewhere around the age of 3, a human starts to take lables to heart. One of the first things it recognises is it's name. From there, a lifetime of conditioning - some of it useful - begins to build. It's a kind of brainwashing without really seeing what's going on. The labels start to take the place of the actual apparent objects.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like to try guiding. I used to hold, before I even knew what it was, Satsang in my home - to nobody - when I was around 14 or 15 years old. My childhood was filled with physical and mental abuse, which led to me seeking very early. "What IS this place?, and why am I here?" I was not spoiled, I was tortured. Most people are not. And if a human is content, it will not usually seek elsewhere for anything. Not always the case, but less so often, I would imagine. Music and books became my refuge, but my passion - and deep recognition - of THIS was profound. And it still is. I don't remember what exactly I would say, but one time I had gotten in trouble in school (I was a very bad boy - grades are not important and I knew that) and was sent to the principle's office where I sat and spoke with the principle so long that the vice principle had to come and ask if everything was alright. His reply was "Either he's way beyond his time, or he's a fantastic bullshit artist!" I remember telling him that school was not real life and didn't prepare us for anything real - only how to obey and become consumers. people are so busy caught up iun the game to even marvel at this wondeful,, and sometimes scary, existence. It's all a game.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Reasonable expectations aside, disappointment usually follws expectations. It's better to remain open in certain matters.

I expect that if I guide someone, I will need to be understanding and patient. I understand that there are people who have been searching for years that are stuck in a loop of ceaseless seeking, and they are looking for SOMETHING. Usually proof in the form of some incredible experience which validates that they are now officially enlightened. This rarely happens.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Transendental meditation - living at The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Ayur-Vedic Health Center in Lancaster, MA. for 2 years. No tur knowledge was given - certainly not for free. You had to pay your way through enlightenment. He even made promises of imortality and the ability to walk through walls. I questioned very early the exorbitant prices ($5,000 for a "flying sutra" to help "speed up the time to enlightenment") telling myself on numerous occasions, "Here, enlightement is for the rich only." I never met Maharishi, but I did learn a fantastic lesson - be careful who you put your faith in. Not all who imply, or outright state, they are enlightened, are. I think of the film Kumare when I write this. great film. After he died in 2008, much came out about him that didn't surpise me at all. The second best thing was that I got to meet George Harrison!

I also worked for The Wisdom Network as a vidographer/editor and met most of the "new age" authors that were popular at that time (Louise Hay, Stephen Levine, etc.) But the whole time, I read as many books as I could get my hands on, and watched every John Bradshaw special repeatedly for years. It was one book that I read that prompted my leaving from The Maharishi cult: Conversations with God from Neale Donald Walsch. It was the first book I read that actually said, "You don't need any more books." And that was really the beginning of "It' NOT out there somehere at all, and there's nothing I need to do."

So I read the first book a few times. And did nothing for years. I didn't even think about it. I just lived my life taking chances and trusting the universe. I took chances and made unconvential moves like leaving America with a one-way ticket to Europe. I didn't know why, I just did it. And I am still here 18 years later and happier than I've ever been. I couldn't have planned any of it either - and not all of it "good".

Last year I had the experience of what I later learned was called Samadhi. It lasted about a week then subsided. Since then, my urge to guide has been stronger than ever.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Alright.

We can start at the end. Be sure to answer only from Direct Experience only, not from thinking or philosophy or things you've read, ok?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[AtticusZen]

Hi Anastacia,

Thank you for your response.

From direct experience only, here are the answers to your questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is not a "Self", "me", or "I" at all, anywhere nor was there ever. There was only a mental construct. I still use these pronouns, but only as a means to communicate and nothing more.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the seperate self is a thought, which over time becomes a belief. It started when I was very young - too long ago to say exactly when.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Well, it's the same as before, but not. The body is just a unit that senses things. I'm sure you're familiar with the idea that there is no seer and no seen, only seeing. So, that's what happened. Still seeing (heaing, feeling, tasting). There just isn't anyone here to do those things. Everything got flatter, in a way - an explosion of sound and color -much how a baby would experience the world. There is still programming (I still enjoy certain foods, etc.) as well as the programming for my work.

How does it feel?

There's a lot less stress also. Any "negative" feelings that may arrise, which isn't often, are far less intense than they used to be and shorter lived. As was written above, everything got "flatter". I no longer see myself as in a world as pronounced as I once did. I am the world. I know that sounds so corny and stereotypical and it reeks of zen, which is usually a red flag with this stuff, but it's absolutely true. The neighborhood is like a movie set. Everything got real small.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

You have to remember, I started seeking in earnest when I was around 18 years old and had glimpses, insights and thoughts starting around 14 years old. I am 54 now, so it didn't take much. After putting all the books down, quitting meditation and listening to any of the many teachers on YouTube for about 15 years (that is no seeking for 15 years), I stumbled across a popular non-suality teacher while doing an information piece on The Maharishi as part of my life story on YouTube (which I have since stopped doing because of this experience). I watch him at first with a dismissive "Oh, great. Another 'master'" attitude, but quickly found myself nodding in agreement at what he was saying. "Yes, that's exactly right!" He was saying what I've always known. But knowing is just that. It's only knowing and nothing else. I decided to do one of his courses which contains a lot of tantric exercises with the body. I stayed with this for about 2 and a half months, and then one day while out for a walk in a quiet open field it happened. I was no longer in the field - the filed was in me. It was incredible. later that day, I sat at the lake and threw pebbles (Oh, how fucking ZEN, LOL!), but the ripples on the lake were in me. Everything was in me because I wasn't seperate from it. And this was BEFORE the work with the seperate self - that came from another YouTube guy, which is when I first started looking. I didn't like him at first because he was such a clone of his teacher- even his mannerisms. But what he was saying absolutely resonated with my previous experience. Even my favorite musicians emulated their heroes too once and I rationalized that that was what he was doing as well. So it kind of happened backwards for me.

That's a lot of story that probably isn't useful, huh? It was another YouTube guy who pushed me over.

These next 5 questions all kind of have the same answer becuase they all come from the same place, but I'll do my best to keep the stories short and answer your questions:

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision is something the false self creates. It gives supports the illusion of having control. A decision is made, but it's the false self that claims it after it's already been made. Example from experience: In everycase, when presented with a situation in which a decision needs to be made - from taking on another client to what kind of pizza to get - the (now very thinly veiled) false self goes away while the brain makes a decision (based on past experience or - it finds something "good" or "positive" it's some conditioned bullshit that is usually so far down you can't recall it anyway (advertisers and the media know very well about this). Then the false self appears again and claims it: I made this decision.


Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Another false-self idea. when I was a teenager, I wanted to be a famous musician. I reasoned that it would provide the safety and security I was sorely lacking, as well as provide positive attention instead of having my head beaten in every night. So, my INTENTION was to be famous (not because of the fame, but for the security my young self thought it would provide). So with this intention comes decisions (which are not decisions at all). I'd need to pick an instrument and get good at at.I was naturally inclined as a singer and drummer. And to a lesser extent, string instruments. Long story, short, I bought drums. But look at where the intention was born from. I didn't create it at all. It was almost instinctual. Survival, in my case. It just happened, and it had nothing to do with me. It was my circumstances that created it. I never became famous, by the way. although I brushed shoulders with it quite seriously. And I am so happy about that because the universe provided beyond my wildest dreams.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no free will. It comes from the same place as the previous 2 questions.

Example: I am walking down the street and I see a homeless guy begging for money. Depending on how much money I actually have in my pocket and/or how lazy I am to go to the ATM if I don't really determines whether or not this guy is getting anything. It changes from day to day, and I have nothing to do with that.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice is an illusion. It's all the same "stuff" with a different name. Is that how far we're gong here? The false self disappears, a choice is made, the false self claims that choice. A lot of choosing, at least for the one writing this, is all conditioning. I eat the same things all the time. I literally don't even think about it.If it's a money issue, I go with what my budget will allow. So a "choice" is made, but no one chooses. It's largely already programmed in the brain.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

This one makes me laugh, as the whole world is so incredibly fragile when it comes to control. Control is absolutely an illusion. From the media to money to anything politically motivated. All those power and money-hungry politicians trying to control everything (and they do - relatively speaking).

Experience: because my childhood was absolutey without control, I tried desperatly to do just that. And it never, ever worked. Or at least somewhere around 70/30 - not in my favor. The universe is going to do whatever it wants to. And yes, it will all be provided in ways that you absoluteyl cannot predict, and it will always be what is "best" for you despite what your false self thinks about it. WHen I moved to Europe, I had NO CLUE what it was going to be like other than taking an intensive course in something. After that course, I trusted the whole process to unfold as it wanted. Now, I own my own company in the field I took that course in 18 years ago. All the things I thought were setbacks, were just setting me up for "success" in a future I had no idea I was about to becuome a part of. (the is no future, but it's just words).

Here's another one from very recent experience, and it kind of covers all your questions, actually: I wanted to watch a live stream of a band that was having their very last performance ever. I bought the "ticket" and tuned in. And it worked just long enough for me to see a few of the openers. Right before the main 2 shows, the feed died. I tried and tried to get the thing to work. I caught myself getting pissed off, laughed it off and waited and tried again. Nothing. I watched all this just appearing. I made no choice, and I certainly had no control over any of it. "REFUND" popped into my brain and an email was sent. 2 hours later, there was a confirmation in my email that I'd be receiving a refund. So my INTENTION was to was a show, I DECIDED to watch it, and the thing died so I had no CONTROL over any of it. Then the universe gave me back my money, and I watched it for free on YouTube the next day anyway! Lol!

What makes things happen? How does it work?

The question doesn't make sense. It's like asking the color brown why it's browm. It would just say, "I don't know, I'm just brown. Actually, I'm only brown in English." Lol!

There is nothing happening. It's all just an appearance. Maybe it seems to happen because thought says it does. How does it work? It works. Or it seems to at least.

Writing from experience is difficult. There are no longer "days". Sure, the sun comes up, stays out for a while, then goes away for a while. We call this "night", and "I" sleep. But nothing really happened. Also, as I said earlier, everything is very flat now. And everything is "me" It all arises in the same place.

The body seems to age (I'm 54, look 25, and feel 18) but more grey comes in on the facial hair with every "year". Things seem to pass, but that's just an illusion. Fashion changes, music changes. But there's another expression that's pretty appropraite here: the more things change, the more they stay the same. These all create the illusion of movement. They're just appearances.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Well, if there's nobody here (and there isn't), what would I be responsible for?

In the relative, I'm responsible for paying my bills and such, but that's just in the story. It's part of the game.

6) Anything to add?

If you would like to probe me for clarification, please do. I'm completely open and feel safe here.

Thank you for this opportunity Anastacia.

[AtticusZen]

Something that might also be worth mentioning: for about 6 months before and a few months after this samadhi experience (whatever it is - I don't care about the name. It's the closest I could find on the internet for what it seemed like), I had this strange pain in my stomach. It took me a long time to find a doctor in this country that would do an endoscopy while putting my body under anesthia (I have major gag reflex. Anesthisia is common in the USA for endoscopy, but not here). Thougs of "cancer" came up a lot. One of my students just happened to be friends with the director of a major hospital here and arranged everything for me.

They found nothing. I was completey healthy.

[AtticusZen]

I also apologize for the typos. I type very fast, and I don't proofread.

I'll be more careful from now on.

[Anastacia42]

Sounds good to me. I will share your answers with other guides who may have questions and get back to you. Just watch this space.

Loving,

[AtticusZen]

That sounds great. Thank you.

Oh, by the way - my name is Paul.

[Anastacia42]

No one had any questions.

If you want to guide, choose a mentor from existing guides who will monitor you through your first couple or three clients

Read their threads & ask someone whose style you like. You can do that with a PM here or through Facebook. LU Guide Central. You'll be getting an invitation to that.

Thanks.

Much love,

[AtticusZen]

Hi Stacy,

That's great news. Thank you. I would like to spend some time looking through the threads to determine whose style I like.

I haven't had social media for about 3 or 4 years now, but I think I have an old Facebook page I can ressurect to join the LU Guide Central page.

Thank you, and I'm looking forward to it!

Paul

[Anastacia42]

That's great. Paul. See you in the guiding group!

Loving,