Feet first (or should it be head first?)

[vinceschubert]

The pain in my foot wasn't too intense , so without the other thoughts, I just got on with life.

Did you pat yourself on the back for this?
Did your head swell even just a little bit?

v

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,

"The pain in my foot wasn't too intense , so without the other thoughts, I just got on with life."

Did you pat yourself on the back for this?
Did your head swell even just a little bit?

At the time, it all seemed so normal.
Now, it feels more "Oh, that was different".


❤️🤣🖖

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,

Finding it hard to say anything, because everything is an abstraction , and trying to put anything into words almost feels like lying.


❤️🤣

[vinceschubert]

❤️

[jrm72]

Hey Vince,

What a beautiful meeting.

❤️🖖

[vinceschubert]

James,

What a beautiful meeting.

Yes. Profoundly touched here.
Here's another attempt at giving you the gift that I have for you..
..another Saltzman gem;
There is only now—only ever now—and this experience of existence. As long as you imagine that something else must happen for you to “get it,” you block yourself from full awareness of this present moment, which is all one ever really has. Lost in the trance of becoming, you miss out on now.

unbounded love

vince

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,

Here's another attempt at giving you the gift that I have for you..
..another Saltzman gem;

Within the limitations of language, everything you have done, since we first interacted, is the gift.

There is only now—only ever now—and this experience of existence.

❤️

As long as you imagine that something else must happen for you to “get it,” you block yourself from full awareness of this present moment, which is all one ever really has. Lost in the trance of becoming, you miss out on now.

Perfect. My imagination, more bullshit thoughts 🤣

unbounded love

ditto






If you post the questions, let's see what answers come up.


❤️

[vinceschubert]

James, ok here are the questions. Be fairly concise with your answers. Respond from experience (not thoughts)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

[jrm72]

Hey Vince, here we go,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

Yes, but all it is, is one thought amongst all the others. It comes and goes as other thoughts do.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

There's no knowledge of when my thought of self began, but there are memories of it having a prime position for a long time. Now it's an oddity.
Life now is far calmer internally.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It doesn't feel like anything, because nothing has been seen.
The difference now is there is seeing of how self obsession held sway before.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

No

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

I have no idea, things happen. As an example - There was no preconception of what words would be written here

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Everything and nothing, it all depends on perspective, on which there is no option of choosing.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you to the entity known here as Vince ❤️

[vinceschubert]

James, can you describe the difference in your inner experience from (say) 6 months ago and now?

vince

[vinceschubert]

Hi James, some clarifying questions from guides that read your answers..
How can it be said there has been nothing seen when on the other hand you say it's seen that self-obsession used to hold sway?

..and, you say "" Yes, but all it is, is one thought amongst all the others. It comes and goes as other thoughts do."
Please explain how the self can come and go with thought.

..and "There's no knowledge of when my thought of self began, "
Whose thought self is it?

vince

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,


The last one first -

..and "There's no knowledge of when my thought of self began, "
Whose thought self is it?

It's amazing how old language patterns remain - "a" or "the" thought of self - works just as well.
There's typing happening on a tablet right now, but saying "I'm typing on my tablet" may still slip out.

How can it be said there has been nothing seen when on the other hand you say it's seen that self-obsession used to hold sway?

They're two different things, the first being such a slow change of perspective. It's like taking one step to the left and saying you see the world differently; technically yes, but everything is exactly the same. The one thing that can be said to be seen differently is the total mess most people seem to be lost in.
The second is an awareness of the strength old delusions.
But all of these words are BS describing thoughts that are BS.

..and, you say "" Yes, but all it is, is one thought amongst all the others. It comes and goes as other thoughts do."
Please explain how the self can come and go with thought.

Any thought once gone, can be seen to have been everything then becomes nothing.
Thoughts come and go and at times any thought can be all consuming and then is seen as it was just a thought.
If having 'gateless gated' means awareness sees all thoughts as BS 24/7, then that doesn't happen here.


❤️

[jrm72]

Hey Vince,

Somehow missed this post -

James, can you describe the difference in your inner experience from (say) 6 months ago and now?

So for completeness -

My inner experience from say 6 months ago was far more chaotic and prone to self absorption and trying to soothe the ego.
Now it's calmer, thoughts are less intrusive, they don't get in the way (most of the time), so it's easier to see what's going on internally.

❤️🤣🖖

[vinceschubert]

Hello James, well, other guides on LU have given the thumbs up for you having passed through the (gateless) gate.
You will be invited to the Unleashed FB group where you can interact with others who have also.
Now is the time to start considering guiding...
i heartily recommend it as a way to deepen.
Here is a re-hash of what I have been telling you.
Am I awake?
i can report that every time these descriptors (awakened/liberated) are used, they are accompanied by the question about whether there is a sense of specialness or superiority.
Whether or not a 'shift' has occurred is not a matter of opinion, but to consider it is to enter storyland.
Now, this is a big one... As we have seen, story is a companion to every experience, and (almost) every experience is a response to story.
Among the many seekers that i have worked with on this forum, there have been some that i would describe as awake in every way but one. That is that they didn't believe that they are.
Consequently, they were responding to a different story, so, many of the new behaviors that would have been instilled by the brain rewiring eluded them.
What are the criteria that determine if a 'shift' has happened? (rhetorical question)
Well, most people would like to have had an epiphany-type experience. They see bells and whistles as proof that it has happened, but for many, it doesn't happen this way.
There was also a belief in seekers, that if we were to 'awaken', that these things would change instantly and completely.
The stories of perpetual bliss, may or may not be true. They are certainly not experienced here, nor in anybody that i have related to.
There was a time when even on reflection it was believed that the stories about ourselves were actual. That we were in control. That truth was a thing. That we were inherently good or bad.
If, on reflection, these things are recognized as a fallacy, if they are recognized to be illusions, then a 'shift' has happened.
At LU there is the need for this to be an experiential shift. Not just intellectual. What does that mean?
The intellectual recognitions are usually accompanied by an experiential component, but without doubt, it takes time to re-condition many years of habitual responding.
If there is a feeling component to the recognition of the illusions, then behavior changes. Responses to the illusions when they present become different.
Knowing that we don't have control over everything that happens means that we don't beat ourselves up over a perceived failure. We don't deny the consequences of it, but neither do we dwell on how it could/should have been. We move on quickly.
Can you see how carrying a story that you are not there yet, inhibits this experiential component from happening ?
This is not to say "fake it until you make it." You only have to ask yourself "do you actually grok the nature of the illusions?"
If you honestly do, then be open to the behavioral changes, the consequences of Seeing. (what is actual and what is story)
You will find that from both yourself and those around you, a resistance to change. For this reason, i advise you to not advertise what you are going through. For a while at least, only talk about it with others that have trodden this path.
Be open to the behavioral changes, the consequences of Seeing what is actual and what is story.

In Buddhist terms, you are now a stream entered. It is a beginning.
i hope to accompany you further on this (so called) journey.

Much (very much) love

a (non) entity with the label vince

[jrm72]

❤️