LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I think that I understand it exactly as you write it: that there is no stable inherent “self”. I am not a young woman. I am 80 eyars old, but not too old to wish to do the work of walking the talk. For many years I studied and taught litterary theory and worked with and believed in the notion of the postmodern multiplication of identity.
What are you looking for at LU? I am in search of being honest and without fear of loosing myself. I am looking for getting rid of the different aspects of selfhood and live in peace without “them”. I have alrady had some close talks with my son about Liberation Unleashed and am looking forward to go further on the road without holding his hand. Although I shall be sharing with him.
I would very much like to be able to interact with Alan Bird.
What do you expect from a guided conversation? From doing the work with guided conversation I hope to work through my inrelluctual and philosolophical notions of the “self” and get rid of the conceptual fonfusions. That is why I call it “walking the talk”.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have during most of my life practised what is today called mindfuldness. I have been a selfappointed student of the Buddihst monk and spiritual teacher Thich Nhat Hanh and has a lot of love and respect for that holy man.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10
Walking the talk
Re: Walking the talk
Hello Hannah,
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!
It's Alan here. I am very happy to walk with you in investigating whether this notion of a separate self actually exists or not.
And thank you for what you've described about your self in your first post. And I'd just like to check...
Is Hannah the name you would like me to use?
Your timing is perfect - it matters little whether one is 18 or 80. As you may already have discovered in being with Thich Nhat Hanh, what you truly are is ageless. Finding what it is that has us think otherwise is actually key to what this exploration is all about.😊
I suspect it will be no surprise to you that this exploration is primarily all about looking and feeling into what is happening in your own experience. To help us look deeply together, here are some suggestions to help:
Do your best to post daily if you can, to keep up the momentum. Life continues to happen and if for some reason you find you cannot post on a particular day, or need more time, just let me know. And I’ll do the same.
For the duration of our exploration it is most helpful to leave aside all other “spiritual” related resources- books, teachings, models, theories, philosophy and the like. This a chance to have a completely fresh look. Try to leave aside everything you learned up till now. Here we are going to depend on your Actual Experience, not from what you have read, heard, learned or believed so far. We will only be attending to what you yourself can observe directly in the moment from looking at what is here right now.
I love what you say here ....
And don't be surprised if emotions - including fear - arise. If they do, please let me know as they are a vital aspect of what is experienced and can often hold keys to what is happening.
Also, please watch this short video which points out how to use the Quote function which will help in our conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=1s
If this Quote function seems a little challenging please don't get too concerned. Just do your best. We will get through !
Sometimes system glitches happen and what you are writing can disappear. So it’s recommended that you copy and paste into Word, answer the questions there and then copy and paste them to your thread.
I'd also like to check with you .....
Do you have any burning questions?
This covers enough to get us going so will leave it there for today.
And oh, one other thing.
What time zone are you in?
I am on the east coast of Australia.
Looking forward very much to this all unfolding
With love
Alan
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!
It's Alan here. I am very happy to walk with you in investigating whether this notion of a separate self actually exists or not.
And thank you for what you've described about your self in your first post. And I'd just like to check...
Is Hannah the name you would like me to use?
Your timing is perfect - it matters little whether one is 18 or 80. As you may already have discovered in being with Thich Nhat Hanh, what you truly are is ageless. Finding what it is that has us think otherwise is actually key to what this exploration is all about.😊
I suspect it will be no surprise to you that this exploration is primarily all about looking and feeling into what is happening in your own experience. To help us look deeply together, here are some suggestions to help:
Do your best to post daily if you can, to keep up the momentum. Life continues to happen and if for some reason you find you cannot post on a particular day, or need more time, just let me know. And I’ll do the same.
For the duration of our exploration it is most helpful to leave aside all other “spiritual” related resources- books, teachings, models, theories, philosophy and the like. This a chance to have a completely fresh look. Try to leave aside everything you learned up till now. Here we are going to depend on your Actual Experience, not from what you have read, heard, learned or believed so far. We will only be attending to what you yourself can observe directly in the moment from looking at what is here right now.
I love what you say here ....
Being honest with oneself is vital. We are not looking for what appears to be “right” answers. Just report as best you can only what you are experiencing in the moment.I am in search of being honest and without fear of loosing myself
And don't be surprised if emotions - including fear - arise. If they do, please let me know as they are a vital aspect of what is experienced and can often hold keys to what is happening.
Also, please watch this short video which points out how to use the Quote function which will help in our conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=1s
If this Quote function seems a little challenging please don't get too concerned. Just do your best. We will get through !
Sometimes system glitches happen and what you are writing can disappear. So it’s recommended that you copy and paste into Word, answer the questions there and then copy and paste them to your thread.
I'd also like to check with you .....
Do you have any burning questions?
This covers enough to get us going so will leave it there for today.
And oh, one other thing.
What time zone are you in?
I am on the east coast of Australia.
Looking forward very much to this all unfolding
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Hi Alan
Thank you for your prompt answer. I am going to keep this answer short because I have a bad headache. It actually began yesterday after or while I was filling out the expected forms. since I tend to somatice my feelings there could be a connection. I am feeling a bit stressed because I want to do well. It’s ridiculous. But there you are.
I want to be called Hannah it is my hebrew name. Here in Denmark I am called by the name my parents gave me: Hanne.
But I am a Hannah. I live in the second biggest town in Denmark, where I was also born and grew up. The time zone is Copenhagen and right now it is 7 o’clock in the evening.
I shall not be bothered with my old learnings, I am far past those matters. I am very occupied with working for for slowing down the climate changes in order to leave the planet a good place for coming generations. It takes up a lot of my time.
Tomorrow morning I shall try to answer your questions more more in full.
Thank you again and love
Hannah
Thank you for your prompt answer. I am going to keep this answer short because I have a bad headache. It actually began yesterday after or while I was filling out the expected forms. since I tend to somatice my feelings there could be a connection. I am feeling a bit stressed because I want to do well. It’s ridiculous. But there you are.
I want to be called Hannah it is my hebrew name. Here in Denmark I am called by the name my parents gave me: Hanne.
But I am a Hannah. I live in the second biggest town in Denmark, where I was also born and grew up. The time zone is Copenhagen and right now it is 7 o’clock in the evening.
I shall not be bothered with my old learnings, I am far past those matters. I am very occupied with working for for slowing down the climate changes in order to leave the planet a good place for coming generations. It takes up a lot of my time.
Tomorrow morning I shall try to answer your questions more more in full.
Thank you again and love
Hannah
Re: Walking the talk
Thank you Hannah.
Take your time and please don't be too concerned about getting the answers "right"
Just let the responses come from the heart.
Will look out for your next post
With love
Alan
Take your time and please don't be too concerned about getting the answers "right"
Just let the responses come from the heart.
Will look out for your next post
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Hi Alan
I am sorry that I have taken some time before answering your kind mail. I have had to do a lot of processing the notion of no-self.
I have had so many different feelings coming up. Very different feelings, but if I look for a common denominator I think it is fear. Fear of loosing the self - that I am used to be sure of.
I am also finding that I very often falls into my old patterns of looking for and answer to my feelings intellectually. Using all the old tools, that is an integrated part of me - I am learning.
I would like to get your help on that subject. And also for you to guide me on how to go about it. I am confused.
I looked at one or two short videos on UTube, and I have decided that I shall not be looking at any more. Neither do I think that it would be healthy for me to read a book about Liberation Unleashed.
So from now on I shall be looking to you for help.
Have a nice day and thank you for taking the "job" on yourself. I appreciate it.
All the best for now
Hannah
I am sorry that I have taken some time before answering your kind mail. I have had to do a lot of processing the notion of no-self.
I have had so many different feelings coming up. Very different feelings, but if I look for a common denominator I think it is fear. Fear of loosing the self - that I am used to be sure of.
I am also finding that I very often falls into my old patterns of looking for and answer to my feelings intellectually. Using all the old tools, that is an integrated part of me - I am learning.
I would like to get your help on that subject. And also for you to guide me on how to go about it. I am confused.
I looked at one or two short videos on UTube, and I have decided that I shall not be looking at any more. Neither do I think that it would be healthy for me to read a book about Liberation Unleashed.
So from now on I shall be looking to you for help.
Have a nice day and thank you for taking the "job" on yourself. I appreciate it.
All the best for now
Hannah
Re: Walking the talk
Hello Hannah
So lovely to see your post pop up.
One way of understanding what this can be is that over our lifetime we all build defenses to any perception of threat to the "me" When there is a sense that we might be stepping towards what mind interprets as the unknown these defenses feel threatened and fear is evoked - its a warning sign flashed by the mind. It feels - as you have described - that you are going to lose something.
The truth is that nothing will be lost. There is only ever a seeing of the truth of what is in experience.
The metaphor of a mirage is useful here sometimes. When a mirage is seen it can appear to perception to be water - something of substance. However once the truth of what a mirage is realized - something that can appear to be water but isn't - there is no experience of loss when the truth is known that it isn't made of water.
Does that make sense Hannah?
So it is in this exploration. There is nothing real that will be lost - but there is a change of perception.
You may have heard the saying "Nothing has changed but everything is different"
Now I know what is said here may - or may not - necessarily dissolve the feeling of fear as you might hope. However the way we approach this investigation is to develop some "tools" to help us build a foundation to work from and and can help mitigate this initial uprising of fear.
And if fear continues to be a significant problem and continues to sabotage our progress, please let me know because there are ways we can address it that at any time.
That's a really good idea. Setting aside all other inputs for now- reading, videos, philosophy and the like - gives you yourself the best chance of taking full advantage of this exploration. We will draw only on you own direct experience where there are no "right or wrong" answers !! The mind says "Surely there has to be right and wrong" Let's see what happens !!
I know I have done so much of the talking here Hannah but wanted to address the concerns you raised in some way. So how does that sound Hannah? Are you comfortable to start taking a look at some of the new "tools" to take the place of the old tools and patterns?
With love
Alan
So lovely to see your post pop up.
I want to say that there is no problem at all taking your time. Not rushing this at all is so important.I am sorry that I have taken some time before answering your kind mail. I have had to do a lot of processing the notion of no-self.
I hear you and what you are saying about your reaction to starting this investigation which is what very often happens. A feeling of deep fear can arise - some may even call it existential fear - that feels like a vice grip in experience and can even bring with it a sense that there is no way out of this.I have had so many different feelings coming up. Very different feelings, but if I look for a common denominator I think it is fear. Fear of loosing the self - that I am used to be sure of.
One way of understanding what this can be is that over our lifetime we all build defenses to any perception of threat to the "me" When there is a sense that we might be stepping towards what mind interprets as the unknown these defenses feel threatened and fear is evoked - its a warning sign flashed by the mind. It feels - as you have described - that you are going to lose something.
The truth is that nothing will be lost. There is only ever a seeing of the truth of what is in experience.
The metaphor of a mirage is useful here sometimes. When a mirage is seen it can appear to perception to be water - something of substance. However once the truth of what a mirage is realized - something that can appear to be water but isn't - there is no experience of loss when the truth is known that it isn't made of water.
Does that make sense Hannah?
So it is in this exploration. There is nothing real that will be lost - but there is a change of perception.
You may have heard the saying "Nothing has changed but everything is different"
Now I know what is said here may - or may not - necessarily dissolve the feeling of fear as you might hope. However the way we approach this investigation is to develop some "tools" to help us build a foundation to work from and and can help mitigate this initial uprising of fear.
And if fear continues to be a significant problem and continues to sabotage our progress, please let me know because there are ways we can address it that at any time.
We are right in the zone to help address these old patterns and the confusion. And to do that we will start with some simple steps - simple but not in the sense of being trivial and unimportant, they may seem simple to the mind but fundamental to seeing clearly what is happening in experience.I am also finding that I very often falls into my old patterns of looking for and answer to my feelings intellectually. Using all the old tools, that is an integrated part of me - I am learning.
I would like to get your help on that subject. And also for you to guide me on how to go about it. I am confused.
I looked at one or two short videos on UTube, and I have decided that I shall not be looking at any more.
That's a really good idea. Setting aside all other inputs for now- reading, videos, philosophy and the like - gives you yourself the best chance of taking full advantage of this exploration. We will draw only on you own direct experience where there are no "right or wrong" answers !! The mind says "Surely there has to be right and wrong" Let's see what happens !!
I know I have done so much of the talking here Hannah but wanted to address the concerns you raised in some way. So how does that sound Hannah? Are you comfortable to start taking a look at some of the new "tools" to take the place of the old tools and patterns?
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
A quick footnote Hannah....
I pressed the submit button a little early in this post so there are a few grammar errors that I hope you can make sense of !
Also you'll see that there are questions in blue font. The blue font highlights questions to reply to please. That makes it easier to pick the questions out especially as we get into further posts
Love
Alan
I pressed the submit button a little early in this post so there are a few grammar errors that I hope you can make sense of !
Also you'll see that there are questions in blue font. The blue font highlights questions to reply to please. That makes it easier to pick the questions out especially as we get into further posts
Love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Hello Hannah
Just checking in to see that all is well.
No pressure and no rush.
It has been a few days since we were in touch so it comes here to check if there is anything that is of particular concern.
With love
Alan
Just checking in to see that all is well.
No pressure and no rush.
It has been a few days since we were in touch so it comes here to check if there is anything that is of particular concern.
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
And one other thing Hannah
If you feel you would like to pause our work here from time to time just let me know. There is no obligation to continue at a particular pace.
With love
Alan
If you feel you would like to pause our work here from time to time just let me know. There is no obligation to continue at a particular pace.
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Dear Alan
I am well, but there has beeb some extremely difficult and challenging incidents in my family. It concerns my xhusbond with whom I am quite friendly, and with whom I share my two sons. It hascast me into some troubled days, where I have not been able to think much about anything else.
At the same time my work with you lures in the back of my head. Please bear with me. I will let you know if I need a pause.
For now All the best and love
Hannah
I am well, but there has beeb some extremely difficult and challenging incidents in my family. It concerns my xhusbond with whom I am quite friendly, and with whom I share my two sons. It hascast me into some troubled days, where I have not been able to think much about anything else.
At the same time my work with you lures in the back of my head. Please bear with me. I will let you know if I need a pause.
For now All the best and love
Hannah
Re: Walking the talk
Thank you dear Hannah for letting me know
What you say brings up deep compassion here.
You are the one who will know when you are ready to continue.
Just know I will be here whenever that is.
With love
Alan
What you say brings up deep compassion here.
You are the one who will know when you are ready to continue.
Just know I will be here whenever that is.
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Thank you Alan for your kind and compassionate answer.
I need a break, but I hope you will be there when I am back. I am facing a packed September. Packed in all kind of ways and things I am responsible for.
I promisevI will keep looking inside too. And I will let you know if any things come up.
Love and all the very best to you
I need a break, but I hope you will be there when I am back. I am facing a packed September. Packed in all kind of ways and things I am responsible for.
I promisevI will keep looking inside too. And I will let you know if any things come up.
Love and all the very best to you
Re: Walking the talk
Thank you dear Hannah
It's completely understandable from your messages that you need to take a break.
I will be here whenever you choose to restart. All that you need do is post a message on this thread as it stays open. If for some strange reason you do not hear from me when you post simply send admin a message.
In the meantime as life unfolds, allow the compassion that is deep in your heart to be truly felt for everyone involved and in particular yourself dear Hannah
With love
Alan
It's completely understandable from your messages that you need to take a break.
I will be here whenever you choose to restart. All that you need do is post a message on this thread as it stays open. If for some strange reason you do not hear from me when you post simply send admin a message.
In the meantime as life unfolds, allow the compassion that is deep in your heart to be truly felt for everyone involved and in particular yourself dear Hannah
With love
Alan
Re: Walking the talk
Hi Allan
Wanted to post a reply to your latest mail/answer. However, I cannot find a way to get beyond post no. 3 from August 22. Have tried all possibilities. Hit a wall. Please help or should I call Elad?
I have been so busy in a good way. I have experienced flashes of moments where I out of the blue feel as if I am in a daydreaming mood but with no dreams only stillness and warmth. Then it passes and I am back in the middle of everyday. Is that just another trick of the self.
I would like to get into the habit of keeping uo a momentum. Is it ok to send very short messages?
All the best and love
Hannah
Wanted to post a reply to your latest mail/answer. However, I cannot find a way to get beyond post no. 3 from August 22. Have tried all possibilities. Hit a wall. Please help or should I call Elad?
I have been so busy in a good way. I have experienced flashes of moments where I out of the blue feel as if I am in a daydreaming mood but with no dreams only stillness and warmth. Then it passes and I am back in the middle of everyday. Is that just another trick of the self.
I would like to get into the habit of keeping uo a momentum. Is it ok to send very short messages?
All the best and love
Hannah
Re: Walking the talk
Hello Hannah,
Lovely to see your message. Just spotted it as I am up a bit later than usual tonight !
I am not sure what's going on that you can't access the thread. Here is a link that lists the posts with the latest one first. So to read them in order you will need to scroll down to the starting date you want and then work your way up the list by hitting "Jump to post" each time. Let's see if you can access all the posts from hereon in.
Here is the link:
search.php?keywords=hannah
Let me know when you're ready and we'll get started once you've been able to find the posts.
And just one other question Hannah.
Has the fear that you spoke of a while back changed at all?
With love
Alan
Lovely to see your message. Just spotted it as I am up a bit later than usual tonight !
It could be ! The mind does many unpredictable things ! We will start looking at some of its tricks in detail in this exploration.Is that just another trick of the self.
I am not sure what's going on that you can't access the thread. Here is a link that lists the posts with the latest one first. So to read them in order you will need to scroll down to the starting date you want and then work your way up the list by hitting "Jump to post" each time. Let's see if you can access all the posts from hereon in.
Here is the link:
search.php?keywords=hannah
Yes ! There is real benefit in working with short messages whenever we can.Is it ok to send very short messages?
Let me know when you're ready and we'll get started once you've been able to find the posts.
And just one other question Hannah.
Has the fear that you spoke of a while back changed at all?
With love
Alan
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