Realization Unfolding

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Aobi
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Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:09 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is a construct created by years of conditioning, alignment with thinking, and mental concepts like labels. When you get rid of the illusion of self you can realize you're true nature and who you really are. The ego clings to thoughts and feelings like fear to keep you in the cycle.

What are you looking for at LU?
Im looking for insight and a chance to understand new perspectives that hopefully lead to my own realization or understanding of no self. I also hope to have some help getting orientated or pointed in the right direction, maybe words of advice or even someone else's experiences that helped them realize no self.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope to be given new insight, tips to stillness and understanding, and maybe new practices and teachings that could help me realize. I also hope a guide could talk about their own experiences with realization and how they approach situations in their own life, maybe steps they took, things they did, or people that helped them develop their own understanding. I don't expect an answer and I don't expect things to be completely straightforward, although I hope that some direction will lead me to my own realization of no self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I like to meditate when I get the chance, maybe around a dozen times a week. The number of times I meditate have been steadily increasing as I have been exploring spirituality and same with the amount of time I meditate for. I use spiritual inquiry and ask the question "who am I?" when my mind has calmed and I am still. When I'm up and about I try to focus on the present moment as much as possible and when challenging situations arise or maybe some emotions are stirring up I take a step back and try to see where these thoughts are rooted in and coming from.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:39 am

Hello,
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed
My name is Adil and I am a guide here
I may guide you on this path if you will..
Please reply with your name if you would like to start this journey..

Sending much love

Adil.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:15 pm

Hello Adil,
My name is Harrison and I would love to have you as my guide on this journey!

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:29 am

Hello Adil,
My name is Harrison and I would love to have you as my guide on this journey!
Hello Harrison
Before we start i would like to share some tips to make our
dialogue smooth and effective:

1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to keep it fresh and buid a momentum.

2. Our main focus here is on seeing through the illusion of
what we call "I," "me," or "self." Please set aside all the teachings
you've learned from books, retreats, youtube, and so on, for the sake
of not bringing bias to what we'll do during our conversation.

3. Process will be mostly answering my questions, its best efficiant if you may answer them one
by one..Please be always 100% honest with your answers
Don't choose the "right." answer, from "what comes up" There's no one here to judge or critisise.
If you are stuck with any issue, we can always take a close look at it.

4-set aside all other spiritually related materials (books, videos etc.) so that you can completely focus on your own direct experience.

5-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/

6- I would suggest you read "What Liberation Unleashed is not" from this link http://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

If all ok let's start..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:31 am

Can you tell me more about expectations ?

What do you think will happen when you realize that there is no separate self ?

And can you tell me what comes when i say:


There is no "you"!
There never was!
Any form, anywhere!
You don't exist!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:12 am

Can you tell me more about expectations ?
To me expectations are things we anticipate happening based on our own beliefs and ideas on how things work out in our minds. I feel as if we hold these ideas so close that when things don’t go the way we expect or plan it causes suffering. We go to our thoughts and reminisce the past over and over, thinking on what we could’ve done to make things different and change an outcome we consider undesirable.
What do you think will happen when you realize that there is no separate self ?
I think when this realization happens it will cast away my conceived ideas about who I am now and who I hold myself to be. This might change how I see the world, or maybe it won't. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what will happen, I think I'll understand or realize this truth when I find it though.
And can you tell me what comes when i say:
There is no "you"!
There never was!
Any form, anywhere!
You don't exist!
Initially when I read this I get a sense like there is a hole in my stomach, similar to anxiety but not quite. I was sitting with this feeling for a little bit and then I felt compelled to re-read the words again, thinking "what am I if I'm not me?" this made me feel slightly uncomfortable because I couldn't find a direct answer.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:14 am

Can you tell me more about expectations ?
To me expectations are things we anticipate happening based on our own beliefs and ideas on how things work out in our minds. I feel as if we hold these ideas so close that when things don’t go the way we expect or plan it causes suffering. We go to our thoughts and reminisce the past over and over, thinking on what we could’ve done to make things different and change an outcome we consider undesirable.
What do you think will happen when you realize that there is no separate self ?
I think when this realization happens it will cast away my conceived ideas about who I am now and who I hold myself to be. This might change how I see the world, or maybe it won't. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what will happen, I think I'll understand or realize this truth when I find it though.
And can you tell me what comes when i say:
There is no "you"!
There never was!
Any form, anywhere!
You don't exist!
Initially when I read this I get a sense like there is a hole in my stomach, similar to anxiety but not quite. I was sitting with this feeling for a little bit and then I felt compelled to re-read the words again, thinking "what am I if I'm not me?" this made me feel slightly uncomfortable because I couldn't find a direct answer.
Ok Harrison..
Thank you for the answers..
It is good that you don't have big expectations. These expecting thoughts are usually makes fog and dust for clear understanding.
And it is perfectly ok to feel uncomfortable when you think that you don't exist.
You will see your self and laugh at the end :)
So let's look more..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:25 am

Here in liberation unleashed we will be using term "looking" and direct/actual experience often!
LOOKING is not done by thinking. It is plain looking.

The term ‘actual experience or direct experience is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ and noticing the thought stories about them...
so ‘looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now –

It is like "looking" for your keys in your pocket..You touch and you feel with your hands to see if they are there or not.

You can simply LOOK and see what is true and what is not.

Actual experience is the raw experience of direct experiences
colour
sound
smell
sensation
taste
and the simple knowing of thought at face value.
NOT the content of thought.

Can you find an actual fish in the thought of a fish ?

The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

So now..

Where does the index finger go to when you say "i" "me" ?

And please LOOK! What is ACTUALLY there ?

Is it a "you" ? Or a chest (bones-blood etc) ?
Is it a "you" ? Or a head (bones-flesh-blood etc) ?

Where is the "I" when there is no thought about it?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:57 am

Harrison i would like to remind you daily looking is the very much key for this realization.
Please let me know when you can focus.
Thank you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:37 am

Hi Adil,
I'm ready to focus towards this realization and I'm sorry for the delay.
Can you find an actual fish in the thought of a fish ?
The thought of the fish is just a thought, nothing more. I can sit and imagine how it's scales look or how it smells but all that is is a story about how the fish looks, how it smells, etc. Its not in my direct experience so its just a fiction. I guess this is how most thoughts are, just a seductive fiction the mind works up.
Where does the index finger go to when you say "i" "me" ?

And please LOOK! What is ACTUALLY there ?

Is it a "you" ? Or a chest (bones-blood etc) ?
Is it a "you" ? Or a head (bones-flesh-blood etc) ?

Where is the "I" when there is no thought about it?
I am perceiving these experiences. When there is no thought about the "I" there is just what lies in my actual experience, like the smell of the room I'm in and the feeling of my fingers touching the keys on my keyboard. When I'm not questioning the "I" I'm just here, perceiving.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:41 am

Hi Adil,
I'm ready to focus towards this realization and I'm sorry for the delay.
Can you find an actual fish in the thought of a fish ?

The thought of the fish is just a thought, nothing more. I can sit and imagine how it's scales look or how it smells but all that is is a story about how the fish looks, how it smells, etc. Its not in my direct experience so its just a fiction. I guess this is how most thoughts are, just a seductive fiction the mind works up.
God looking..
Sure there is no actual fish in the thought of a fish.



Where does the index finger go to when you say "i" "me" ?

And please LOOK! What is ACTUALLY there ?

Is it a "you" ? Or a chest (bones-blood etc) ?
Is it a "you" ? Or a head (bones-flesh-blood etc) ?

Where is the "I" when there is no thought about it?

I am perceiving these experiences. When there is no thought about the "I" there is just what lies in my actual experience, like the smell of the room I'm in and the feeling of my fingers touching the keys on my keyboard. When I'm not questioning the "I" I'm just here, perceiving.

So where does the finger go to ?
Is there an actual "you" in the chest or head ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:33 am

So where does the finger go to ?
Is there an actual "you" in the chest or head ?
The finger doesn't go anywhere. And I don't think that there is an actual "you" in the chest or head. I can experience sensations from both the chest or the head but I don't associate "myself" with either of them. Maybe we're just the perception of these experiences we have in our direct experience, although I'm not completely sure.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:03 pm

So where does the finger go to ?
Is there an actual "you" in the chest or head ?
The finger doesn't go anywhere. And I don't think that there is an actual "you" in the chest or head. I can experience sensations from both the chest or the head but I don't associate "myself" with either of them. Maybe we're just the perception of these experiences we have in our direct experience, although I'm not completely sure.
Thanks for the answers Harrison..
The finger doesn't go anywhere. And I don't think that there is an actual "you" in the chest or head. I can experience sensations from both the chest or the head but I don't associate "myself" with either of them
That's good. So you don't have a sense of self "in the body" ?
Good start :)
Maybe we're just the perception of these experiences we have in our direct experience, although I'm not completely sure.
What we do here is looking harrison. We try not to think much so if you stay with the looking without thinking, it will be much easier for you to find out that there is no self anywhere..So let's focus one by one pointers i'll give you for LOOKING

So..

If this "self" is not in the body, where else can it be ?
Can you locate ?



Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:44 am

Hey Adil,

Thank you again for helping me look, I appreciate the direct questions and the daily feedback and hopefully Im on the right track!
If this "self" is not in the body, where else can it be ?
Can you locate ?
I can't locate exactly where the self is. The "self" seems like its created from the experiences of my direct experience so I feel like I should be able to locate it and pin point it down, although I keep turning up empty handed. So the self can't be real at all, if I can't find it in my direct experience it most likely isn't reality or true and it couldn't have been ever.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:38 am

Yes.
Self / I / me has no direct experience.
It is a thought content.
But is the thought real ? How real is thought ? Let's look..

Sit down close eyes and imagine you are in the kitchen. Observe the space, see where things are, open the fridge, take something out and eat it.
Feel the sensations of being in the kitchen, smells, views, taste of flood that try. Look around, notice as much detail as you can in most vivid way.
Then open eyes and go to the kitchen. Now look around, open fridge, take something out and eat it. Do everything what you did in imaginary kitchen and
notice the difference between imaginary and real experience.

What is different? Which one is more vivid? Is it true, that direct experience of being in
the kitchen is same like imagined experience?
Is thought world reality?


Sending much love
-
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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