Seeing Through

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Colette01
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Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:24 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by this, that there is no solid, inherent sense of self, no one who knows, or acts or reacts. There is knowing, but no one who knows. Much suffering has been exacerbated by my efforts to concretize a sense self - to make some thing static and knowable and real against a backdrop of change.

What are you looking for at LU?

My request is quite simple. I'm looking to go through LU's process of exploration of self, to explore the process of looking at how a sense of self is fabricated. I am wanting to experience LU way of guiding. I have asked if I could guide on LU and the admin has said that I must be guided first.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I dont know if I expect anything but I would hope for honesty, clarity, and questions that will help me explore how the sense of self is fabricated, to explore residual beliefs. I'm looking forward to working with a human being. I expect it'll be interesting :-)

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have worked with Christiane Michellberger for 2 years exploring the 10 fetters. I'm now exploring the 6th fetter.
I have read Gate Crashing and followed Illona and Elana videos.
I have been inquiring into people's experience as part of my teaching job for about 10 years.
I have meditated for many years but draw upon many other methods of exploring what it means to be human.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:44 am

Hello
My name is Adil and i am a guide here.

We can start the journey if it is okay for you.

If you feel ready send me a message and tell me how would you like me to call you, is it "Colette"?

Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:28 am

Hello Adil,
good to hear from you. Please call me Colette.
I’m ready to start when you are.

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:09 pm

Hello Colette
have asked if I could guide on LU and the admin has said that I must be guided first.
That's good because we need guides here.

Before we start i would like to share some tips to make our
dialogue smooth and effective:

1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to keep it fresh and buid a momentum.

2. Our main focus here is on seeing through the illusion of
what we call "I," "me," or "self." Please set aside all the teachings
you've learned from books, retreats, youtube, and so on, for the sake
of not bringing bias to what we'll do during our conversation.

3. Process will be mostly answering my questions, its best efficiant if you may answer them one
by one..Please be always 100% honest with your answers
Don't choose the "right." answer, from "what comes up" There's no one here to judge or critisise.
If you are stuck with any issue, we can always take a close look at it.

4-set aside all other spiritually related materials (books, videos etc.) so that you can completely focus on your own direct experience.

5-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/

6- I would suggest you read "What Liberation Unleashed is not" from this link http://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

If all ok let's start
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:12 pm

Can you tell me what comes when i tell you

Colette is an imaginary character. There are words about it but it is totally imaginary. Like Spiderman like Santa.
You have never existed, never been born, and there is NO YOU to die.


Tell me please what comes when you here this bitter truth :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Colette is an imaginary character. There are words about it but it is totally imaginary. Like Spiderman like Santa.
You have never existed, never been born, and there is NO YOU to die.

I looked into experience and saw thoughts and sensations. There was nothing there called 'Colette' or 'I'. I had thoughts that said this cant be how it is. I had a thought called 'Colette' and like iron fillings around a magnet, other thoughts came in the form of images e.g. the house where 'Colette' was born, the street that the house was in, the car next door to the house, each thought piecing together a little jigsaw puzzle and then another thought that said 'you', 'Colette' and another thought, 'there must be a you because the thought images prove you were born in that place, at that time, remember there was snow and it was 1963 and your sister named you...the storyboard of thoughts. And one final thought that said 'yes, that's how it is'.
Strange thing is - there was no picture in that little story of 'me'. There didn't need to be! The other 'inferring' thoughts were enough. But they were just thoughts.

There was sensation e.g. full belly (plus thought - you've just eaten and now the belly is full so it must be your belly) 2 separate occurrences linked to provide 'evidence' of 'you'. Everything that was seen, heard, felt, liked, disliked was appropriated to the project of proving there was a Colette that was born in a place and grew up and had a thousand experiences and each piece of information 'proof' of an 'I'.... an 'I' that existed across space and time...that grew old and would die one day.

There was a bably girl born in 1963 in the winter. That is true. But no 'I' was born and no thing that wasnt born can die.

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:07 pm

Just to say something about 'bitter truth'. There were thoughts that said it would be hard to have 'no self' but the truth is that it was very hard to live contstantly creating and re-creating a fictitious self that was substandard and not enough. This was the hard thing to live with. I suffered enormously from the story of 'me' as substandar.

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:57 am

Thank you for the story Colette.
It was a wonderful read.
"There was a bably girl born in 1963 in the winter. That is true."
This is pure thought called (memory thought is not a special thought)
Here in liberation unleashed we will be using term "looking" and direct/actual experience as you know.
LOOKING is not done by thinking. It is plain looking.
The term ‘actual experience or direct experience is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ and noticing the thought stories about them...
so ‘looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now –
It is the raw experience of direct experiences colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value. not the content of thought.

Sending much love.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:59 am

Your case looks a bit different Colette, so i will start from the end for me to understand where you are

Can you please look and answer these check point questions ?
Which one is still true for you ? Then i will be knowing the areas to focus on.

1-I AM MY NAME /
2-I AM THIS IMAGE IN THE MIRROR I HAVE A BODU I AM IN THIS BODY OR MIND,
3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE,
4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
5-I HAVE FREE WILL,
6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
9-THERE IS A FEELING AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:25 pm

Dear Adilerten,
Thank you for the questions. I’m just back tonight from a v long drive, so I’ll answer them tomorrow. Hope that’s ok with you. Have a good evening 🙂

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:18 am

Dear Adilerten,
Thank you for the questions. I’m just back tonight from a v long drive, so I’ll answer them tomorrow. Hope that’s ok with you. Have a good evening 🙂
Okay Colette ;)
Right here waiting for you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:57 pm

Dear Adilerten,

Good afternoon. Here are my answers for today - written in Wales, the sun shining.

1-I AM MY NAME /
When looking there is no thing named 'Colette' - the label doesn't refer to a 'person' or in fact anything consistent or solid - its a social convention that 'suggests' there is something solid called Colette. When i look into direct experience i dont see anything that the colleciton or words 'Colette' refers to nor do I see gender.

2-I AM THIS IMAGE IN THE MIRROR I HAVE A BODy I AM IN THIS BODY OR MIND
when looking in the mirror there is sensory experience happening - a thought or two arises at the same time - a habit. the thought says 'that's you' and another thought said 'yes'.
'Eye', 'ear', 'old', 'mouth', 'skin' are all thoughts too but in direct experience.

In direct experience something named 'sensation' arises but when I look there is no 'sensation' - there is something and its named 'sensation'. A thought arises that says sensation is in the body or the hip or jaw...but there's no jaw or hip in direct experience

'body' to be me. A thought said, 'who else could it be?' There is sensory expeirence and it is known but there is no one called self knowing it. There isnt any body either - another thought label. There is just direct experience. Another thought arises - a subtler thought, that implys that someone MUST be having the expereince of feeling sensation and that something is 'me' or 'I' but its just a thought guess. Just becasue senseation is known doesnt mean there's an 'I'. Knowing direct expeirence doesnt imply a process called perception nor is it proof of self - that's all inference, thinking.Perception also is thought-made.

There is no separation between what is seen and the seer. No space between. Just one happening.No one is perceiving and there doesnt need to be perception or perceiving. Everything seen, felt or heard can be taken to imply a knowing subject. But everything is just known without that.


3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE
When looking in direct experience there is just visual/auditory experience (I cant even differentiate between auditory and visual - they are concepts too) etc - in direct experience there is no 'centre' and no 'life'. Just sensory experience bubbling up, bubbling up, bubbling up

4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
"i', 'control' and 'things' are all concepts that are not found in DE.

5-I HAVE FREE WILL / 6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
In direct experience there is no 'choice' or 'control' or 'free will' - all that is seen is sensory experience.

7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
Again 'yesterday' tomorrow' 'now' 'past' are not found in DE. When i look there is DE appearing and appearing and appearing.There is nothing designating 'past' or even 'now'

8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
In DE no evidence of me never mind others - no 'us' or 'them' - no 'I' no others, no 'I' nothing to be separate from! When i look out of the window - there is visual experience. labelling happens i.e. tree / wall. Another thought implies that Colette isnt a wall. Wall and 'Colette' are though concepts - neither are real and nor are any thoughts that suggest that the two concepts are 'different' or 'separate'.

9-THERE IS A FEELING AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
Anything taht is expeirenced can be taken to be proof / evidence of a feeler/hearer/ thinker/ seer but DE experience happens and no 'knower' 'seer' is necessary - there is nothing to refer back to - there is just DE.

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 am

Thanks for the beautiful answers to the pointers Colette..
It is seen that you have seen through the idea of separate self and you are ready.
If you don't have questions or fields to be looked more please write to me.
If not i'll be giving you the final questions for other guides also to see and approve that you have seen.

Thank you

Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Colette01
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:04 pm

Dear Adilerten,

good afternoon. I would be very happy to have the final questions whenever you are ready. I would like also to thank you for your friendliness and encouragement :-)

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adilerten
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Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:24 am

I thank you dear Colette.

Here are the questions..Be sure to answer every single part of every question.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Much love,
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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