Please, please show me the way through !

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jimw
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Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:39 am

Hi All - some background:

I am a 35 yr old married man and dad. I am a scientist and former academic, so very good at conceptual thinking (which can make life awkward!).

I have been looking / seeking for 'something' for about 10 years. I have been practicing meditation (breathing) and mindfulness for a few years and have read a lot of Buddhist books and advaita books (including by authors such as Eckhart Tolle). In my sitting meditation and in everyday life, I have experienced brief moments of stillness and great happiness as the thinking mind goes quiet (a.k.a 'jhana'). I know intellectually that there is no 'me' and have had a few brief 'flashes' of experiencing this - I think. I know I am not the mind or my thoughts. However, I seem to get drawn back into egoic thinking or more commonly, negative emotions (I can stop the internal dialogue no problem).

I feel like I am on the verge of 'something' (or maybe 'nothing'!), but I would really appreciate someone to show me the way through - it feels like I have jumped some hurdles and only a have a couple left. I have had enough of chasing my tail :)

I would be very grateful for someone to give me a shove over the last couple of hurdles!

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vinceschubert
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:42 am

Hi Jim, for the purpose of this process, it is best that you don't read or listen to anything else for the moment.
A commitment to stay for the whole process and to post at least once most days.
Total honesty with yourself and me is necessary. Post quickly and don't edit what you have written, there are no 'correct' answers.
give me a shove over the last couple of hurdles
This is not a progressive process. There is no accruing of credits that 'tips the scales'. This is a discovery of what already is the case.
good at conceptual thinking (which can make life awkward!).
Yes, analytical thinking can interfere with direct experiencing, but we will cross that bridge when we are on it.

Jim, start by giving me an uncensored rave about what you expect it will be like to be liberated. Include in this the push factors too.

good you are here.

vince

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:59 am

Hi Vince - thanks for replying. I am looking to end egoic suffering and to 'see things as they are'. I have had a lot of suffering in my life with health problems (physical and psychological) and am I getting fed up with spiritual seeking / tail chasing. LIberation / enlightenment / awakening sounds like the 'way out'.

I will try to reply promptly to all posts (about to become a dad again, so posting might be a little sporadic, but I intend to stay put for as long as needed!)

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:03 am

also I'm in the UK, so there might be time differences, depending on where you are - thanks for taking 'me' on !

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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:34 am

I am looking to end egoic suffering
Jim, can you see how "egoic suffering" occurs ?

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:54 am

By the feeling / sense / thought that 'I' is separate I guess...

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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:09 pm

Jim, when i say "can you see how "egoic suffering" occurs ?", i don't want your logical deductions. i want your report of what takes place when you experience suffering.
Try this; think of some situation that causes you to suffer. Then consider the sequence of events that lead to the suffering. Describe the suffering, the sensations, the feedback loops that exist. Don't talk About suffering. Describe it.

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:23 pm

OK - here goes. The last few days I have had a general feeling of listlessness, tiredness and being short tempered - no particular reason why, the only thing that I thought it could be was some minor frustration at work (which has been resolved). I got annoyed that I should be able to see through the illusion of self and just be content with how things are. I am fine and then all of a sudden a thought / sensation comes along that causes a sensation best described as 'inner tension' and negative emotions (anxiety, fear, pushing away of negativity). The awareness is still there, I just feel inner tension - this then feeds itself and I start to get short tempered then have an argument with myself ('I shouldn't get like this') or someone else (as I am generally grumpy).

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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:45 pm

Excellent Jim, this is the kind of stuff we want.
that I should be able to... 'I shouldn't get like this'
Jim, can you recognise the origins of the 'shoulds' and where they emerge from (in the present) ?
a thought / sensation comes along that causes a sensation best described as 'inner tension' and negative emotions (anxiety, fear, pushing away of negativity).
Would you say that this reaction is 'ingrained' ?

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:49 pm

The 'shoulds' seem to come from a sense of me, trying to protect 'me' but thoughts are only thoughts, which is kinda of weird. 'Ingrained' is a good word - it is like a programmed response, I see it happening time and time again !

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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:58 pm

a sense of me
please describe your experiencing of this "sense of me"
Is there sensations associated with it ? Are the senses involved in it ? Does it reside in any particular location ? etc..

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:08 pm

This is the crazy thing - no - me is just being here, now, experiencing. sometimes the body is felt, sometimes less so, sometimes there are thoughts, sometimes there aren't.

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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:15 pm

This is the crazy thing - no - me is just being here, now, experiencing
Can you differentiate between "me" and "experiencing" ?

Jim, it's bed time her in the land down under.
If you meditate before we speak again, do this;
Have no intentions.
simple observe thought.
consider which thoughts are beliefs or opinions.
don't judge them, simply observe.
occasionally ask yourself "is there anything that is not story outside of this experiencing right now ?

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jimw
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby jimw » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:03 pm

Thanks Vince - I'll give that a try - its sounds like something I have been doing recently 'off the cushion' - will be interesting to see what happens.

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vinceschubert
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Re: Please, please show me the way through !

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:58 pm

jimw you wrote:
"This is the crazy thing - no - me is just being here, now, experiencing"
Jim, Can you differentiate between "me" and "experiencing" ? (not thoughts about, but in your now experiencing.)


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