DrM

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

DrM

Postby Nemo » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:12 pm

This one is for you DrM, welcome.
Tell me a bit about it.
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:15 am

Hi Nemo,
I am ready to do whatever it takes to surrender my ego and know inner peace.
I've realized the utter failure of achieving inner peace through relationship, career, any and all endeavors (doing).
A recent, pretty severe heartbreak and rejection by a woman I deeply loved motivated me to finally stop seeking fulfillment through social, sexual and emotional comfort. It just doesn't work. It's all delusion and illusion. I'm so tired of the same old patterns that reinforce the sense of a separate self. I deeply desire freedom from my ego.
Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:33 am

Wonderful to be working with you :)

It looks like you're at a point of no going back, do-or-die. That's really great. Let's light this sucka on fire!

You probably have a few expectations about this - how it is meant to feel, what will to happen, what the outcome will be, etc. It can be a bit tricky, but what I would like to ask of you is that you drop all expectations as best you can. Is that cool? This way, you can open up to what is and offer least resistance as we engage in this process. There might even be some there that you aren't consciously aware of. If you have any trouble, or feel the need, we can also discuss them and try shedding some light on them in order to vanquish them more effectively. But the important thing is that they are let go of.

I'm very sorry to hear about your heartbreak. What I can try to help you with, through seeing the I-illusion, is to minimise not pain, but suffering. It may not make a lot of sense now, but it will. Things like pain and heartbreak become amplified and exacerbated, and cause unnecessary amounts of suffering, when they are attached to a self (or belief in one). However it is possible for pain and heartbreak to be allowed to arise and pass away of their own momentum, and even cherished equal to love and joy.

Fulfilment can actually be found in anything and everything - the only problem is our relationship to life and everything in it, which is viewed, experienced and distorted through a lie.

Okay. So, tell me a little more about these patterns that reinforce the sense of a separate self. Also, tell me a bit about your 'self' in general... what is self for you?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:39 am

Hi Bonnie,

I intellectually understand the difference between pain and suffering as having to do with attachment. I had definitely let myself become attached to my ex-lover, believing her to be my soul mate. My lover's eyes and ears were blind and deaf to all the not so subtle messages that she was giving me that her feelings were not reciprocal. My craving for intense intimacy and dissolution into the oneness of deep love drove me forward despite warnings that this was not an ideal relationship. I compromised my integrity by giving too much to a woman who did not truly love and appreciate me for who I am, and got badly burned when she was done with me. It crushed my ego and broke my heart wide open. It hurt like hell! I still feel bruised. It is great motivation for the letting go process.

I've tended to be a bit of a hopelessly hopeful romantic, believing that I'll find the deep connection I desire in an intimate relationship. I've finally realized that that is an illusion. I need to learn to truly love myself first, which I've never really done.

I am aware of the root cause, i.e., I am a survivor of incestuous child abuse and have suffered from PTSD and its manifestations most of my life. I've done all sorts of therapies to heal and continue that process presently. It became clear to me recently that I am identified with 'victim consciousness' and have been attached to all the stories that feed it. I'm really wanting to break that spell and let go of that painful identification, since it very powerfully solidifies the ego and the sense of a separate self. I need help letting go of this.

I'm also identified with my role as a physician/healer. I work as a homeopathic family doctor and have evolved an excellent reputation for my professional skills. I wonder if I am too attached to this role in life?

Well, I guess that I've given you plenty of meaty stuff to respond to :)

Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:49 am

Hello!

Well, you certainly have a lot of story happening there at the moment. Including several things I feel my own story relates to quite closely. It's okay to have stories, and although there are really no good or bad, or better or worse stories, you may as well have a particularly gripping and epic story! You wouldn't go to the cinema to see a movie where there are no villains or drama and nothing much happens and everyone's just happy all the time, would you?

And when you go to the cinema, you might even find yourself getting caught up in the plot, relating to and feeling for the characters. But despite how invested it might seem you are getting, deep down you always know it's just a story. Because you are aware that you are sitting in a cinema, you have seen it, and no matter how intense or amazing the movie gets, you can never unknow the truth of the cinema. This is the same with seeing no-self. You will find that you do not actually exist as a character in this story with the protagonist "DrM".

The self is something which demands so much, it has so many expectations and life must bend and twist and lie to do it's will. It asks for so much, and when those expectations are not met, it feels hurt and betrayed. Can you imagine how life would be if there were no expectations? It is not your self you need to learn to love, as it doesn't exist! It is life itself that you must learn to love, wholeheartedly, unconditionally, and nonjudgementally. It's all included! DrM is but one aspect of this, and is in no way separate from everything else. You have certain expectations for this DrM character and suffering is felt when they don't happen. But there is no control had over life, there is no "controller", no man behind the curtain pulling the strings.

You mentioned how identifications and attachments to certain stories and personas has recently become clear to you. This is a fantastic first step - you see, seeing that these things are just stories is a crucial step to letting go of them, so half the work is already done.

This story has had abuse in it. It's been labelled "victim consciousness". (Definitely parallels in the story over here.) But these events, although seemingly significant, are not the only events in this story, and yet this is where attachment lies the strongest for some reason. No doubt society and conditioning and the likes has something to do with it but who really knows why? It doesn't really matter anyway. The thing is, now life must twist and conform to suit the story, and not the other way around. The story is constricted and closed off, and we want to crack it open again, clear the slate and be open and conducive to anything and everything it could possibly be, everything life has to offer.

It really is easier than it seems to let go of story. Just open your eyes and look around at what is happening right now. What is story, what is the past, anything other than a thought in the now? It barely relates to the present at all!

You also spoke about DrM's character being a doctor. And there are certain emotions or beliefs, certain attachments felt towards this aspect of the role. It's okay for these feelings to be there. If enjoyment is observed here, then enjoy! Let DrM entertain :) Even if attachment is felt, that's okay, that happens too. BUT - DrM is not you. And no matter what kind of feelings and attachments arise, once you see this truth, attachment too will be known as merely illusion - all part of the play. The trick is to take none of it too seriously!

So, examine experience right now and tell me what you find. Look for a self. If you can use the broken heart here, use it! Take a look at a thought, a feeling, that is arising now, and tell me, where did it come from? What made it happen? Describe the process.
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:14 am

Hi N,

You're absolutely right that the little self/ego demands so much. Actually, it's a bottomless pit of voracious hunger for identification as someone separate and special somewhere.

When I examine what I am experiencing right now, the stories seem like paper shells with transparent, empty characters, like animated ghosts. They have no definiteness or solidity, nothing to grasp or embrace.

When I feel into my broken heart, there is the sensation of heaviness, burning and hollowness in the center of my chest. As I focus on it and feel it, it begins to fade some. Then memories and images spontaneously come up about my ex-lover. There are fleeting thoughts and feelings about her, an impulse to make judgments about her, to make her wrong for what she said and did. I notice a certain negative pleasure in the attachment to this story about her. It seems so empty and insipid in retrospect from this perspective.

The thoughts and feelings appear to arise of their own accord, beyond my control, without effort. If I try to resist them, they persist even more. The effort of resistance makes me feel heavy-headed and sleepy, perhaps because it's after midnight.

Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:06 am

Hey DrM,

Really great work! A wonderful enquiry my friend, we're moving ahead fast.

You have discovered - "The thoughts and feelings appear to arise of their own accord, beyond my control, without effort." Would I be right in assuming there is still a sense that all that stuff is still happening to a "me"? This is what we have been told since childhood, these are the unquestioned assumptions. Certain things are definitely being felt, but surely these feelings can only exist if they belong to someone, or are happening to a someone, right? Examine this - the possibility that experience could exist sans experiencer.

Everything that exists, does so within phenomenological reality - direct experience. Anything said to exist outside of that is purely conjecture. Take a look at experience. Is there an experiencer? Does observing really require an observer?

Because of this feeling that thoughts and feelings are personal, and are happening to a "me", the urge to resist is there. To cut off the illusion's fuel source, it's a simple as stripping away belief in it. Is it possible not to try and resist? What happens then?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:31 pm

Hi N,

Yes, there is still a sense of all that stuff happening to a "me" unfortunately.

Early Sunday morning and most of the day, I was caught up in deep grief and regrets over the loss of the intimate relationship. It just bubbled up spontaneously from deep within. I did not try to suppress it or change it, just let it happen, and I let chest-heaving sobs happen until it was done expressing the energy. Seeing how much I gave away my power to her to validate the sense of "me," to feel special, loved, comforted, safe, secure.

But, in retrospect, I see my attachments to the illusion of safety, security and love. I see the fragmentation in myself and my ex-lover. Though, it doesn't really bring much relief just having a deeper understanding of why she is not "in love" with me anymore. It is only more story. I'm so tired of my mind creating stories to try to figure out why I was rejected so harshly. My tendency is to dredge up all my faults, beat myself up, grovel in the loneliness and sadness, then feel angry at the other for treating me so badly. More victim stuff. It's a vicious cycle. How do I stop?

I'm doing my best not to resist per se. I'm not as gripped by the heartache as I was a few weeks ago. But, there are moments when I still really miss the beautiful aspects of the love I once shared, and find it so confusing that it's gone, probably forever. I wounded her trust at the beginning of the relationship and she could never really forgive me. I'm struggling to forgive myself for the foolishness, selfishness and wounding both of us. This feels like very painful karma. But the heartbreak did turn me back toward my inner work, which was adrift during the relationship. I imagine that was the divine purpose of getting my butt kicked so hard.

I did a process with a dear friend yesterday where I imagined my ex- in the chair across from me and told her all my feelings and thoughts. Then I changed seats and imagined that I was her and let her speak. It helped me to see and experience things from her perspective, at least in my imagination. I could see both of our wounds more clearly, and what needs to be healed.

I have committed myself to healing my PTSD and dissociative patterns arising from child abuse. It seems reasonable that before I can truly let go of my sense of a separate ego personality that I need to reintegrate it so that all the parts are working together in synchronicity and cooperation, otherwise there will be too much unconscious and subconscious resistance and obstruction to genuinely letting go and realizing the advaita truth. At least, this is what feels like the correct path to follow. What do you think?

Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am

I did not try to suppress it or change it, just let it happen, and I let chest-heaving sobs happen until it was done expressing the energy.
Ah, this is wonderful, no resistance! Just allowing these things to come up, be experienced, and dissapate naturally and of their own accord. I understand how the heartache must be feeling. Never forget this one truth that is true for everything - this too shall pass.
My tendency is to dredge up all my faults, beat myself up, grovel in the loneliness and sadness, then feel angry at the other for treating me so badly. More victim stuff. It's a vicious cycle. How do I stop?
It's like a negative feedback loop, huh? What happens if you remove the source? Take self out of all the above, and what is left? The cycle happens because these feelings come up, but they cannot simply pass on through experience of their own accord as they are reflected off a self. They get louder, grow exponentially. Whether or not you have actually seen no-self yet, as an experiment try examining these things as if there is no-self. Tell me what you find.

Sounds like a great process you tried with your friend. Anything that broadens the perspective, or takes you out of the limited, personal perspective of self, is a very good thing, and ultimately can result in taking the perspective of life itself, with DrM becoming simply a reference point in life.

As for the healing and reintegration you spoke of. If it feels like something that needs to be done, let it be done - no resistance. My only words of caution are not to let this sort of work bog you down further in to story. If you can tie that work in to your advaita/anatta work, and use them in conjunction, I think that would be not only very possible but hugely benificial, as ultimately, they each have the same desired outcome.

Love to you DrM...
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:30 am

Hi N,

It does help a lot to release without resistance.

Yes, a negative feedback loop. Without a source, there would be nothing to loop back to. However, I'm not there yet. I have only had a brief glimmer of no-self as yet.

I feel that I will be strong enough to really let go of the little self/ego once I've reintegrated and have all of me working in synchronicity. At least, that's what feels right for the time being. I'm open to change.

I believe that I am in the process of integrating my psychotherapy and advaita path. It's unfolding that way.

The heartbreak story is very slowly losing its grip on me.

Namaste & Love,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:37 am

That's great DrM.
What was the catalyst for your previous glimpse into no-self?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:37 am

Shamanic journeying on ayahuasca....an amazing, ego-dissolving, blissful experience.

It would be lovely if that experience could become a permanent state of being.

How did you achieve the non-dual state on a consistent basis?

Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:00 pm

My first satori was also triggered by a psychoactive substance. It took time and a bit of work to integrate it though. The direct pointing method gave me the final push.

What must be realised about nonduality is that it is already abiding. It is already true all the time whether you are looking right at it or not. It doesn't require you in any way. In fact, just the opposite.
The other thing to realise is, both duality and nonduality are true simultaneously.

How is it all going?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

User avatar
DrM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am

Re: DrM

Postby DrM » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:08 am

Hi N,

Volcanic rumblings of grief and despair emerge from the depths of the ancient, dank, dark abyss...

It was too easy to believe that my ex, Terri's, harsh, angry rejection and "psychic darts" were the proximate cause of all of my suffering, but it was my own attachment to the false, numbing dream of protection, safety and security from the emptiness, cold paralysis and silent, loveless terror that was my childhood, which the social and sexual comfort of the relationship with Terri appeared to temporarily provide. I felt bereft without it.

A dear friend who is an excellent Vedic astrologer did a comparative reading for me today of Terri's, and my life charts. It was extremely enlightening. Everything that my therapist had 'diagnosed' about Terri was accurate. She is indeed a very fragmented narcissist; her psyche is very torn in opposite directions by profound planetary forces. Her Neptune-Moon influence makes her seek otherworldly, idealized relationships, OK for Gods/Goddesses, but absolutely impossible for humans. Her strong Mars influence makes her angry, competitive, and ready to fight and smash any man who pops the balloon of her idealized soul-mate image. Her fragmented parts are in a constant tug of war with one another. It has caused every one of her relationships to ultimately fail. Her deepest underlying fear is of true intimacy. This is why she attracted and married an emotionally unavailable man and stayed with him for 18 years. There was no risk of ever challenging her fear is of true intimacy.

Our relationship was doomed to failure from the onset. I yearn for true intimacy, and put internal pressure on her to come out and meet me there. It was just too much for her. Her ambivalence and repeated vacillation between drawing me closer, inspired by her desire for the depth and beauty of what I was offering, and her pushing me away due to fear of intimacy, ultimately drove my inner child a bit crazy. We both acted out.

My astrologer friend said it would take a major miracle for Terri to be willing to face all the inner work and pain of healing this intense fragmentation of polar influences. It may be work for future lifetimes. Essentially, now that this is revealed, it is clear that it may be impossible to be the "deeply connected friends" we had wanted to be. Terri would have the potential of always drawing me in and throwing me away again. She could be a source of unnecessary pain. So, for the foreseeable future, I will keep my distance and do the inner work for which I am destined.

I am feeling more settled into being alone, at least for 2012, and allowing satori to spontaneously appear.

Namaste,
drm

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: DrM

Postby Nemo » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:57 pm

DrM.

Firstly, you must understand that there is a whole lot of compassion and love here for you.

But you have to see that all your last post is swamped deep in story, conjecture, and beliefs. And not just that, it is a story about someone else! How true any of it may or may not be, matters not. But all that this story about Terri is doing is reinforcing your own story, gratifying and appeasing your own ego. It's comfort food. Feeding an illusion! Can you see that? You are throwing fuel into the fire instead of removing it's fuel source.

You can never actually know the truth about another's story - in fact, you can never know for certain there are others with stories - all it can ever be is a story within a story. All that can truly be known is what is experienced first hand. I know there is tremendous hurt being experienced right now regarding Terri and all, but it pains me to see that you appear to be making it hurt more than it needs to.

I am really no good at pulling out the zen stick, but please know, it is out of love, and any sting is simply aiding in the removal of the ego.

There is no need to analyse your shit before you flush it. Do you understand my friend?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest