Marat and Elena

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Elena
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Marat and Elena

Postby Elena » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:51 am

Marat Golaviev were added by Elena Nezhinsky.

Like · · Unfollow Post · November 15 at 1:38am
Laurent E Levy likes this.

Laurent E Levy Hey Marat Golaviev! Welcome here. Do you know what we are about? Do you care to walk through the gate of no-self? R u into engaging in liberation process now?
November 15 at 2:13am · Like

Marat Golaviev Hi Laurent! Yes, I know what's this about and I'm looking for the gate. I've been writing on the forum for a couple of days now (http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=150), looking at the life and experiences and thoughts... And the mental chaos is receding.
November 15 at 2:24am · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev Still, I feel like there must be a me, some final point where all thoughts and experiences come to...
November 15 at 2:27am · Like

Laurent E Levy And what would this me look like?
A final point? Do you look like a final point?
Take a look dear Marat.
And see if that's not just another assumption, relying on yet another one: that there must be a someone for a thought and an experience to happen.
Check and get it over with. FAST and FURIOUS.
November 15 at 2:35am · Like

Marat Golaviev Well, I'm mighty furious right now. So full of energy that it's burning me from inside, almost sickening. So much reading and thinking and looking. And it did help me feel better, but...
November 20 at 11:31pm · Like

Marat Golaviev How do I look? How do I see? What must be done?
November 20 at 11:32pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky You need to look plainly right into your experience. Plain look, physical, just like you look at your friends or computer or window. No strain. Simple look. Look and tell me is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
November 20 at 11:55pm · Like

Marat Golaviev What is "you"? What is reality? I don't understand any of this anymore. What's there? I'm stitting here. Or my body sitting here. There's a rush of pain and anger that was strong a few minutes ago, but is now almost gone. A cup of tea on the table. And my head hurts.
November 21 at 12:11am · Like

Marat Golaviev Don't even want to think about it anymore. Over the last few days, realizations had come, about roles, about memory, about judgements, about thoughts and mind programs. All fine and interesting. Doesn't help.
November 21 at 12:18am · Like

Marat Golaviev Is there me in reality? Isn't the consciousness me? The presence? The one that's there looking? If I'm in the dreamless sleep or some othe unconscious state, then there's no me, only a body.
November 21 at 12:27am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky there is no you. no. not in a form of presence or consciousness. Consciousness exists. you - not. You is a thought you assign to the experience that is happening. Can you see how the little baby in a bed open it's eyes for the first time. Is there "I" in a baby? Does baby think that he is consciousness? Or baby is a current experience - life l-i-f-i-n-g as b-a-b-y-i-n-g.
November 21 at 12:39am · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev Baby doesn't think in these terms, or in any terms for that matter. He's just there. But he is conscious, is he not? I'm conscious. It's there. I'm aware of whatever is going on around me, as much as the senses can tell. Well, the brain is aware. But anyway. Even if the label "me" is taking off the consciousness, it reappears. Like, I know the brain is trying to identify with something, but can't see it happening.
November 21 at 12:49am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky if we take baby or you apart - body, feelings, sensations, thoughts (in your case) - exist. "I" - does not. A label. Learned label. Baby does not have it yet, so it's just raw experience. You learned it. It's is also raw experience, but then after the experience you have this thought "I" that clams the experience.
November 21 at 12:52am · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev English isn't my native language, and maybe that's why the word "you" doesn't even resonate that much in my thoughts. Anyway, it feels like I can't exist unseparated from the world. I've read about it being a delusion a thousand times, even thought I understood it, but I don't see it...
November 21 at 12:57am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky so which word is close for you? Write in your language.
November 21 at 1:07am · Like

Marat Golaviev Logically, I get it. The analytical mind has constructed a shiny model and it all fits perfectly. What's missing is the actual seeing...
November 21 at 1:10am · Like

Marat Golaviev ‎Elena Nezhinsky, do you speak Russian?
November 21 at 1:11am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky which word you use for "I" you?
November 21 at 1:12am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky I speek Russian, but English better on this topic:) But I can use your word that you identify with.
November 21 at 1:15am · Like

Marat Golaviev I don't think words are that important. Even if I say "Я" instead of "I", it's the same.
November 21 at 1:16am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky But you said "you" does not touch you deeply, that is why I asked you which word then.
November 21 at 1:18am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky So I will tell this, and you tell me what comes up: YOU DO NOT EXIST
November 21 at 1:19am · Like

Marat Golaviev I'm feeling that "me" is some kind of safe retreat. Somewhere to hide from the big scary world. Like there's me and there's the outside world.
November 21 at 1:19am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky so how is that baby feels that does not think "me" about himself. Does he afraid? Or he is one with the world?
November 21 at 1:20am · Like

Marat Golaviev ‎"YOU DO NOT EXIST". That did strike something new just for a second.
November 21 at 1:23am · Like

Marat Golaviev Hard to describe... Like I've suddenly seen myself as someone else, outside. Like a part of The Matrix or something, that doesn't know he's asleep.
November 21 at 1:25am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky I am not joking. Sense of self - exist. Thought, image of self - exist. Feeling - exist. Self - does not. Just a lable to the experience, a thought that comes after experience and grabs it. In reality there is no you. and never being.
November 21 at 1:26am · Like

Marat Golaviev I'm not joking either. There was something I've never felt before. Only for a moment and then it's gone.
November 21 at 1:28am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky You have so much learned ideas in the head. You need to drop it, and look at the experience with baby's eyes, fresh , raw, simple looking. You are trying to fit in concepts of different teachers or whatever you hear or learned before. Drop this shit now. Drop this dream state, he is asleep, presence, consciousness and all the other staff you can't see for yourself. Here we talk only what can be seeing. And it's easy. It takes that moment to see - 1 moment. Good that you are not joking, so will you look now?
November 21 at 1:30am · Like

Marat Golaviev hmm. YOU DO NOT EXIST. Almost a call for suicide. For that something that is me, or I think is me.
November 21 at 1:31am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky You can't kill something that does not exist
November 21 at 1:32am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Can you kill Batman?
November 21 at 1:32am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky See that "I" is like Batman - a thought, concept, lable. That's all it is
November 21 at 1:32am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky If I asked you to find Batman in the room, would you go and look? No. Because you know it does not exist. Why you are looking for an "I"??
November 21 at 1:33am · Like

Marat Golaviev But who's reading that. YOU DO NOT EXIST. Like there's a me, an attention point that reads this, but the only way it can understand this is to stop existing. No, why am I referring to it as someone else?
November 21 at 1:35am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky reading is happening. there is no you..experience does not need an experiencer
November 21 at 1:36am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky something that does not exist in a first place can't stop existing.
November 21 at 1:37am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Can Batman stop existing?
November 21 at 1:37am · Like

Marat Golaviev uhhh
November 21 at 1:41am · Like

Marat Golaviev I understand that... but I don't see it... yes, Batman is not real. He's made-up character. He cannot stop existing because he doesn't exist. Argh. Too much thought. I'm lost again, thinking about Batman and whatever. Focus. Focus.
November 21 at 1:46am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky See the similarity of what is real and what is illusionary? Now - look around you, ok? See that table is real - its there. In fact, if you even close your eyes - it will be there anyway. Real. Ok? sensations on the body - real. Now if you take Batman. It's a thought in the head, an image, a lable. Illusion. So now take "I" and compare to what is real - any object in reality. Real object is very vivid, taken by any of the 5 senses. It exists. Batman is an illusion. Body, sensation, feeling, movements, thoughts - exist. You is not. Like Batman. Lable.
November 21 at 1:47am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky what's cooking?
November 21 at 2:02am · Like

Marat Golaviev I have to go now. I shall think about this and look and I'll be back.
November 21 at 2:04am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Do not think. Look.
November 21 at 2:05am · Like

Marat Golaviev Real - not real. Seeing. Hearing. Feeling. Hmm.
November 21 at 2:08am · Like · 1
Elena Nezhinsky ya, ya..continue to look in that direction. if you need to disengage now - fine, but continue to look, not think
November 21 at 2:09am · Like · 1

Laurent E Levy LOOK, NOT THINK!
November 21 at 4:03pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky ‎Marat Golaviev, where are you, friend? Did you look?
November 22 at 12:04am · Like

Marat Golaviev Thank you, my friends. I'm not gone, it's just whenever I want to write something here, it feels like an excuse not to look. There are doubts about what it should feel like and that perhaps I'm making up the "feelings of myself" to have something to write about...
November 23 at 8:20am · Like

Marat Golaviev A thing happened two days ago, after our chat. I went to oratory training and was feeling extremely bad, rush of raw emotion. Couldn't even think about talking. Went out of class, walked on the street crying, completely wasted. Then, after some ten minutes it just stopped. Click - gone. Peace. Back to the class smiling and talking. All that was automatic. Just happened. And I noticed how I, "me", was assuming responsibility for this. "I" felt bad, and then "I" stopped. Even though it's not true. It just happened.
November 23 at 8:28am · Like

Marat Golaviev Feelings just happen. Mind-programs trigger them. But it's no use blaming myself for this, "self" is not responsible for anything.
November 23 at 8:37am · Like · 1
Elena Nezhinsky So what is this self, this "I", really?
November 23 at 1:15pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Marat, dear, let's finish this , ok? We need to ask you several questions. It's for you to look, for us to check and for the benefit of others who read here silently and look too. We have people reporting clear seeing just by reading threads, blogs. We all help each other- actively or just providing your own process be documented and clear to the end. Please answer my question. And then we go from there, ok? If doubts remain, we will clear them together.
November 25 at 2:11am via mobile · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev Ok, go ahead.
November 25 at 4:23am · Like

Marat Golaviev This self is a an assumption, a someone that thoughts, actions and decisions are attributed to. Something happens with the body, the mind, and the brain assumes that all this belongs to a person.
November 25 at 6:12am · Like

Marat Golaviev ‎"Watever happens is happening to someone" - that is the belief. And that someone is "me". It exists only as a concept, like "university" or "public opinion".
November 25 at 6:24am · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev The thing is, for the last few days it feels like I'm in-and-out that state. Dive into delusion, pain, fury, depression, then wake up an hour later... "what the hell was that? why do these programs and feelings still control me?"
November 25 at 6:31am · Like · 1

Sri Clownananda Marat, if I may: pain, fury, depression, sadness, whatever, just arise by itself. Those things/feelings are just thoughts, and there's another thought saying: these are 'my' feelings, 'my' moods, 'my delusion', and 'I' have to get rid of them to be free.

Liberation, awakening, whatever name we call it, is NOT a state. So you cannot be in or out of 'it'. It seems there's an agenda running that says: when this and this will stop happening (and mostly what thoughts label as unpleasant feelings), I will be free. But see how this is still based on the belief that there's a you to whom all this happen, and an idea of a 'you' who can control what is happening.

"why do these programs and feelings still control me?"... see? Those programs and feelings + the idea of a 'you' to whom it is happening + the idea that 'you' are controlled by them, all this, are just thoughts.

Marat, don't expect anything. Drop all agenda. Don't try to achieve some peaceful state of mind. Liberation starts with the recognition that none of what you describe as painful feelings is 'you' nor 'yours'. It just happens. 'Marat' is just a thought.
November 25 at 7:31am · Like · 3
Elena Nezhinsky ‎Marat Golaviev, so when you are "out" - what's the difference? Look and let me know.
November 25 at 11:45am · Like

Marat Golaviev ‎Sri Clownananda, yes. I've read so much about all this, that I made up expectations. I don't think I understand what this is about anymore. Playing with concepts, not actually doing anything. Elena Nezhinsky, when I'm out, all the thoughts and emotions are overwhelming. It's like the ego saying very loudly "you're failing everything, even this". And there's understanding that all this is not true, not me, just thoughts. But it only makes it worse.
November 27 at 12:27am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky good, good. There is no in and out. It's only different experience, different thoughts, feelings - more calm, less calm, etc. Seeing the illusion of "I" has nothing to do with calmness. Seeing the illusion of"I" is only this: seeing that "I" is not separate entity, "I" does not exist as separate entity, just like Batman does not exist as separate entity. "I" and Batman are illusions. True?
November 27 at 12:40am · Like

Marat Golaviev Batman is a mind-made story. I is a mind-made story, and not very accurate at that. True.
November 27 at 12:58am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky So what is on your way now to see? You said you are playing with concepts...
November 27 at 1:06am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Look what is on your way. Look honestly right now. Ask yourself innerly "What is on my way?" And listen carefully, Marat. Ask with real feeling. And listen as this is the last answer you ever hear. This honesty you need to pull up. This is the only what you need. So go and ask and shut your mind, and listen what comes up. "WHAT IS ON MY WAY?"
November 27 at 1:09am · Like

Marat Golaviev Ok, I took a walk... Nothing, really. Just expectations. Just another story about "enlightenment", and how I should get it and what it should look like. Waiting for something, some shift. Time to drop that. Somehow there's knowledge that Marat is not real. There's a character that everyone sees, and everyone sees differently, and no one sees the "true" Marat, because there is none. There's an different image of Marat in everyone's mind, including this mind, but ultimately it's just an image. And it changes constantly.
November 27 at 8:08am · Like

Marat Golaviev If there is an obstacle, it's the mind. Always drifting somewhere. Whenever there's an attempt to see what's going on right now, it comes up with thoughts, "oh is this it? oh, what will I write on facebook? oh no, I'm not looking, I'm thinking about some random stuff!"
November 27 at 8:11am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Marat, If I extend my hands to you and say - I have this watermelon in my hands (I just imagine it, and you just imagine it, ok?) So I am giving you this watermelon - take it. You take imaginary watermelon and "hold it" - go ahead - do it - hold imaginary watermelon - huge - in between your hands. Really feel i gave it to you, and you are holding it. Hold your hands now around the watermelon. Fell it in your hands. Now I ask you what you should do to get rid of this watermelon in your hands?
November 27 at 12:16pm · Like · 2
Elena Nezhinsky don't come to me with anything intellectual. hold the imaginary watermelon and look what should you do to get rid of it. Let me know.
November 27 at 12:17pm · Like

Marat Golaviev Ok, I tried it several times. All I have to do is get back into reality, just look if there is really a watermelon in my hands. Not just open my eyes, but turn attention from the image in my mind to what's really in my hands right now. The watermelon only exists as a wispy image in my mind and that image doesn't hold up when checked. It's hard to describe.
November 27 at 10:43pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Exactly. wispy image - thought. What you need to do to get rid of the watermelon? To stop imagining it. So stop imagining that you are self that exist and owner of the experience - because if you look - you will find that wispy image - a thought- that does not have a correspondence in the reality. You can't even drop the self - it does not exist. You can't achieve no-self - it does not exist. It's just like that imaginary watermelon - just a thought. Stop believing thought.
Monday at 1:22am · Like

Marat Golaviev But that's easy. And I always knew that. Huh. When I'm in the moment, enjoying life (which is most of the time now), there are just occasional thoughts "wow, really, I just did this?". But that's just life vibing. When there's sadness or rush of emotions, there's thought "oh shit, I'm so sad and painful", but that's just thought too. No one's controlling this.
Monday at 4:39am · Like

Marat Golaviev Haha, it's so funny actually... how these thoughts come from assumptions... "I should be enlightened and not feeling bad, but I'm feeling bad now, therefore I'm not enlightened. You think you can always be happy? well, no! you fail!" - that's how the inner dialog used to go. But who's that person talking? There is no one talking, these are just thought patterns spinning on their own.
Monday at 8:20am · Like

Marat Golaviev Forgive my rambling, I just type whatever I discover. There is no me. I could see for that "me" image for a second now... a strange "shape"... It looks like a ball of words and feelings, kinda like my father (weird), maybe a bit like my face, with some echoes and memories mixed in. And like a wispy image, it's hard to grasp, it disappears when looked upon.
Monday at 8:29am · Like

Sri Clownananda Marat,I get what you're saying here. It's very funny how this 'I-thought' is connected to the fundamental survival mechanism of the body/mind organism. Physically, it is programed to look for its own safety, its own survival. It's coded in the reptilian brain. And somehow, this programing invaded the other layers of the brain, and then reached the neo-cortex.

So now, what was supposed to protect the organism, became a psychological self-defense... When some energy is arising and labeled as 'sadness', or 'feeling bad', or anything else, it rings the danger bell and creates a thought 'Something is wrong here', 'I feel bad', 'I have to do something to get better' etc.

To 'get better', for the body/mind, is to feel good, have 'pleasant feelings'... with whatever, food, drugs, sex, relationships, and finally... enlightenment. "When I'll be enlightened, I'll feel safe, and good all the time". This is not true.

So actually, "feeling bad", "feeling sad", "feeling scared" is absolutely ok, and in itself it doesn't even create a 'you', unless the reactive part of the mind which want to get rid of it, change it, avoid it, transform it, is at play and taken to be true, taken to be 'you'.

Aas you said, all this is just thoughts, arising by themselves, spinning out by themselves...
Monday at 8:41am · Like · 1

Sri Clownananda There's nothing to get with 'enlightenment', or the seeing/realization that 'there is no you', nothing! Who would benefit of it? The 'you' who doesn't exist? No happy ever after in this...

It's ok to suffer... if it is what's unfolding... but the idea that it is 'your suffering', happening to 'you'... that's the illusion, because there's no 'you' producing it, not 'you' to whom it happens, and no 'you' to control it.
Monday at 8:55am · Like · 2
Elena Nezhinsky Ok, friend, Sri Clownananda's input was great to show the perspective. Very good. Thank you. let's see where you are, ok? So please, take your time, look, and answer me this question: Is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
Monday at 5:57pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky ‎Marat Golaviev, dear, I am ...waiting. So please, take your time, look, and answer me this question: Is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
Tuesday at 11:19am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky ‎Marat, let's finish this thread. Look this way. You came here, we guided you. We want you to finish it. Why? To get you all the way AND so other people who read these threads may be helped by this work. It happens very often that somebody read and get awakened just by reading and seeing the truth. So we help each other in different ways, you never know what can be influential. Let your thread and your work be influential for somebody. Please come back and let's finish it.
Tuesday at 11:29pm · Like
Elena Nezhinsky If any doubts, just lay out here. we will look together, one by one.
Tuesday at 11:30pm · Like

Marat Golaviev Something just happened.

Nothing really changed, but...
Like the crazy screaming voice in my head has shut down.

I am nothing.
Nothing is really that important.
Life goes on.
There is no "enlightenment" with angels singing, there's just void.
Kinda weird.
Silence.
Clarity.
Calm.
Things happening all around.
Thoughts coming and going.

So tired...
I have to check what is this...
Yesterday at 5:21am · Unlike · 1

Marat Golaviev Is there me in any shape or form in reality? What is me again? I don't understand this. There is no "me", just voices in my head. This head. And images. So tired...
Yesterday at 5:27am · Like

Marat Golaviev Doubts? Yes, there are a lot. But I have to rest ... and really look into this now. I'll report what's going on tomorrow.
Yesterday at 5:33am · Like
Elena Nezhinsky Answer me this: do you exist?
Yesterday at 8:45am · Like

Marat Golaviev No. Not as a "me". There is this human being, mind, body, personality, habits, thought, reactions etc. But not me. It's always been like that.
11 hours ago · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev There is confusion that something was supposed to happen. There was a big big shift two months ago, triggered by an idea of an ego and that "happiness is your default state". Just walked around smiling and happy and full of energy for about two weeks, and often still do. :) There were minor shifts a few times, most recently yesterday. Still, it's all really hard to explain. There is this consciousness that is not really me or an entity at all. It's just... awareness. Of reality and body and thoughs.
11 hours ago · Like · 1

Marat Golaviev Hahahaha, now I get it. All this time I was trying too look and get rid of something that was never there :) no "dropping self", no "seeing self". There is no self. There never was. Never.
9 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Marat Golaviev It's okay to say "I" when referring to a human being. But it's a concept, a label. So "I get it" really is "there is an understanding in this mind". But talking like this would be really weird, hence the simple word :)
9 hours ago · Unlike · 2
Elena Nezhinsky This was great, Marat ! You gave me chills, man. Really great work! Thank you for staying and looking. Such a gift to humanity. You will see that the life will continue as it was before, because life was always living without "I", it's just this idea in the mind was present :) Are you interested to help others? We have a group of people all around the world doing this work, it is really noble work that does also help one to stay in truth while helping other. We do not have anybody with Russian language. I do it in English, I never try in Russian. We have Polish, German, Litwanian,Romanian, and many other languages. No Russian speaking:) And its a big country:) I will add you to couple of our groups, so you will see how we provide support and training in this method - Direct Pointing. Much love to you, my friend! I am really happy I helped somebody from Russia, Khabarovsk! Feeling much gratitude for your courage to look. As I say, when consciousness relaxes in one embodiment, ripples goes out and touch many. And this is how the humanity awakens.

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