A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

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ElPortal
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A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Hi there,

I have been reading through the threads and discussions for a few days, and this will be the first time I have interacted with anyone about all this - apart from one question to Francis Lucille on a web meeting. So it feels a bit weird, but one thing I realise is that the ego can be devious, so I am ready for no-nonsense guidance.

54 years old here, had so much happen in my life over the last couple of years that it's forced me to come back to 'the gateway' (not that I knew anything about ryvita or brabantia until about five months ago).

Anyone willing to take me on?

M
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:46 pm

Oh as I have some time on my hands I would be happy to work with more than one guide also...
M
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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vinceschubert
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:53 pm

Hi M, do you want to be called M or give me a name.
first a contract.
Are you willing to (try and) post every day ?
to give 120% honesty to yourself and me ?
relate only from your own experiencing, no second hand knowledge, quoting etc.
stop all other seeking type activities for the duration of this ? (reading, viewing, meditating etc.)
Not expect a transfer of knowledge. We are not teachers.
I will ask questions, you will not attempt to answer them for me, you will communicate the response that you experience to me. The questions are to position you to SEE, to DISCOVER, to RECOGNISE something for yourself.
agreed ?

Now, give me a rant on what your expectations are for being here. Your hopes, desires and what you actually expect.

vince

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:00 pm

Hi Vince,

Thanks for taking this on. My name is Mark.

Yes I am happy to try to post every day (the only exception may be when I have to travel in about a month from now for a couple of weeks, but I will do my best - well maybe we'll be all done by then?!!). Also I agree to the rest of the contract.

At this point I could hit you with the life-story novella, but will spare you the drama. If and when you would like any background details just ask and away I'll go!

Over this Summer it has been a sort of crescendo of seeing and of feeling lighter. Or maybe 'decrescendo' would be a better word, as the sense of self seems to have diminished to the point where it seems to be held on by a thread (unless all that is imagined) instead of the fat rope which it was before this year.

Expectations and hopes are for a complete collapse of that sense of self, and I don't think I have too many pre-conceived ideas of how that will play out in practice. Perhaps more living in the moment, less planning, more sense of the immediate.

From being here I am hoping that you (and maybe others?) can point me in the right direction to achieve whatever recognition, discoveries and energetic shifts are necessary.

By the way, as you know, I said in my initial posting that, as I have time on my hands and - I believe - earnestness, I am open to working with more than one guide. I have also had a response from CosmiK by a PM. I have never done any of this before. Had I better work with just you, or two? I will go with your guidance on this.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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vinceschubert
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:59 am

Hi Mark, you say;
Expectations and hopes are for a complete collapse of that sense of self
Using direct experiencing, can you locate that 'sense' of self ? Where is it ? What senses are used to sense it ?

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:37 pm

ElPortal wrote:
Expectations and hopes are for a complete collapse of that sense of self
Using direct experiencing, can you locate that 'sense' of self ? Where is it ? What senses are used to sense it ?
(Just practising the use of the 'quote function there).
OK well nothing is sensed with the senses, it seems, except for pleasure in the toasted cheese and tomato sandwich I had for lunch . Maybe also in experiences of irritation, anxiety, fear, that sort of thing which can cause a sudden sense of contraction or need to protect self. I think those may count.

Cheers

Mark

PS Have you had chance to think about what I asked about allowing cosmiK (or another guide) into this? I have felt almost every one of the hours since writing the posts (maybe another sense of self?! especially as I have now stopped reading, meditating, viewing etc.
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:58 pm

Hi there Vince,

I think I may have messed up. I went into the Burning Thingy section because I have the time and inclination to work intensively. Having looked through the guides that handled most posts I approached about 3 or 4 whose style resonated with me (including you) and asked if they/you would be willing to work with me, either one to one intensively, or two or three to one. Even possibly more of a chat situation. Not sure what is available in Facebook or Skype and how you guys work?

But I didn't take into consideration that your own time zone is pretty much opposite to mine. What should we do? Should I ask for someone working on European time, or work with several of you?

Please could you let me know what you think, or let others know? Sorry, I am completely new to all this.

Thanks and I really appreciate your help so far, especially being as it's the weekend.

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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vinceschubert
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:07 pm

Have you had chance to think about what I asked about allowing cosmiK (or another guide) into this?
Sure. i am happy for others to be involved.
Mark, you didn't answer these questions.
Using direct experiencing, can you locate that 'sense' of self ? Where is it ?
It's a good idea to quote each question separately then consider it before answering.
I am much more interested in any response to the question than an actual answer (but that too).
This was mentioned in the 'contract' but you seemed to ignore it. So let's start right. This is not about teaching or passing knowledge to you. Rushing is counterproductive. Consider this a light slap with the Zen stick.
Now, let's go back and do those questions again, and this time report your reactions as you consider the question(s).
Add to those questions, this; Define your "sense of self".

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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:13 pm

I may have messed up.
yes, messing up happened.
Choose one of us to work with. (one thread) and reconsidering the multiple guide question, there is probably no value in having more than one guide unless stuckness occurs and it can cause confusion in the direction one of the guides is leading you.
Time zone is no problem as more than one reply per day probably means that there isn't enough consideration/contemplation being applied to the questions.

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi Vince

OK thanks for that. I would like to continue working with you please.
I probably misunderstood, thinking that spontaneous responses were what was needed.
So contemplation will now take place and I will give reactions to your questions tomorrow.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:07 am

Hi Vince.

Thanks for the clarification.
Using direct experiencing, can you locate that 'sense' of self ?
Looking, looking, feeling, sensing, but no, I cannot. All I can locate is a sense of something akin to a life-size inflatable doll, now deflated. In it are just the memories of 'me' and 'mine', some preferences (eg toasted-cheese-and-tomato-sandwich taste, NOT to have my teeth drilled by the dentist etc).
Where is it ?

It does not have a location: it is only imagined, only an appearance. The preferences seem to be felt in the body.
Define your "sense of self".
Well, similar to above really, it feels something like an empty paper sweet bag. The sweets are gone, just a few bits of sugar inside with the smells of what was there, smells which could theoretically, with enough stimulation, lead back to an appetite or sense of 'me', but which don't seem to be doing that right now. The 'sense of self' feels like a ghost.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:13 am

Hi Vince.

(The 'quote' function seemed to go awry in that last post, so here is a retry; hopefully it will be clearer).

Thanks for the clarification.
Using direct experiencing, can you locate that 'sense' of self ?
Looking, looking, feeling, sensing, but no, I cannot. All I can locate is a sense of something akin to a life-size inflatable doll, now deflated. In it are just the memories of 'me' and 'mine', some preferences (eg toasted-cheese-and-tomato-sandwich taste, NOT to have my teeth drilled by the dentist etc).
Where is it ?
It does not have a location: it is only imagined, only an appearance. The preferences seem to be felt in the body.
Define your "sense of self".
Well, similar to above really, it feels something like an empty paper sweet bag. The sweets are gone, just a few bits of sugar inside with the smells of what was there, smells which could theoretically, with enough stimulation, lead back to an appetite or sense of 'me', but which don't seem to be doing that right now. The 'sense of self' feels like a ghost.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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vinceschubert
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:35 pm

So Mark, is there an I anywhere, in any form ?
Was there ever ?
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?

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ElPortal
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby ElPortal » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:07 pm

Hi Vince

This afternoon and evening have been spent looking into your questions and here are the reactions:
is there an I anywhere, in any form ?
No. There is just what is happening. This does however sometimes include emotions, preferences etc but even those seem to be less at the moment.
Was there ever ?
Again I have to say 'no'. This one is a bit trickier though. The past seems abstract, unreal, imagined. In fact a recent breakthrough was last week when it occurred to me that 'yesterday' does not exist and 'tomorrow' does not exist: only today. So, 'at the time', in the 'history of Mark' he seemed all very real. But now in this moment there never has been an 'I'. It's not that he has died, it's that the whole thing has been seen through. I can't speak for the future, whether the sense of that 'I' will stage a return, but for now it's a no and even if the sense of it did return in the future, it is clear that it would be illusory, pretend.
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Once again it's 'no'. Nothing is separate, apart from in appearance.

This seems too easy. Can it really be so simple?


Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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vinceschubert
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Re: A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:03 am

This seems too easy. Can it really be so simple?
You'll answer this question yourself soon.

How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.


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