Say "I". What does that point to?

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jimmy
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Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:22 pm

This is Elena's question to me. "I" points to an ever shifting ocean of thoughts, ideas and beliefs, in a constant question and answer cycle. This "I" is "self"-perpetuating with this endless stream of questions and answers. When looked for, to find or identify or know, it cannot be found. Endless notions on top of notions.

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Elena
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:51 pm

What stands on your way of seeing that you see,
and there is nothing else to want to be different
other then
what is this experience right now?

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:21 pm

"What stands on your way of seeing that you see,?"

I don't know. There's no one here who knows. There is plenty of ideas that arise, all guessing and answering and theorizing. You don't want all those ramblings, do you?

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:28 pm

Long time no see. Spill out. When you write look at each idea you write where it originates in the body. Ramble yes, but remember, slide down from the head into the body. See the experience and let me know.

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jimmy
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:12 pm

Example: The delusion is a loop of thoughts, ideas, beliefs, feelings, all building on, and circling around each other. All hope expresses in the grasping for any “good” story we have ever heard. All fear and questioning creates a “me” to be hurt, lost, gone. The whole chest area is feeling pressure, maybe. Hope and fear justify an on-going dialogue which generates a sense of me.

Example: I just bumped into the belief that my life is the result of choices and decisions that “I” have made. I have successfully brought myself here for this suicide. This just floats around me, without any physical location. This points to the idea of self-mastery. I have spent much time there. Who? The character created with ideas, beliefs, stories about how there is an “I” controlling this life, the master. I never have controlled it. I never have had much say in it. Maybe chest area, swirling. The sensations just float about. Even all this writing is loose and running around. This is also the story of success and failure, accomplishment and victory and defeat. All of that swirls around this empty being not quite able to settle.

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:33 pm

You can just allow pressure to be. I want you to see that just what you freel now and all the thoughts in a head and sensations - this is the current experience. The truth. The life. You know, nothing can be different in this moment? The only what stands on the way is that you think it can and should be different and that waiting for something different creates pressure of still seeking. Seeking for something other then this. Only that pressure, that longing should go to relax into what is. But hear me: what is is not relaxation or nice fuzzy spacious place - it's just what is for you at the moment - just this. People call it surrender, acceptance.. Doesn't matter words...look what is there right now. What?

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jimmy
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:52 pm

" . . .look, what is there right now?"

This. Always, this. The belief or expectation that something will be different, the seeking, creates an identity of a seeker looking for something to be different than THIS.

“. . . pressure of still seeking.” The seeking does not require a seeker and something sought. Right there, in that seeking, is a sense of self, the seeker. Allow that to be “looking” or “seeing” and the me disappears.

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Allow that to be “looking” or “seeing” and the me disappears
Me does not disappear. Me never there and never was.

what is there is the seeking -
the seeking, creates an identity of a seeker looking for something to be different than THIS.
YES

drop the seeking

Can you do it?

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jimmy
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:12 pm

"drop the seeking. Can you do it?"

There is a giggle when it is realized that "no me" obviously cannot look for a "me" to know who I am. "No me" eliminates the seeker and the sought. All that is left is seeking, just like breathing, typing, seeing, feeling, laughing. Tons of entertainment arising and none of it is personal.

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 pm

Awesome, my friend! How does it feel to be liberated?

And from what?

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:56 am

Jimmy, c'mon, friend, let's finish this. And celebrate.

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jimmy
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:57 pm

Friends, yes. “How does it feel to be liberated?”

I didn't want to answer until I could, but I can't. I don’t have a “feeling” of being liberated. I’ve got nothing. Empty.

And, to answer the other question, “And from what?” would be guessing at what you’d like to hear. The emptiness just sits here.

I came to this forum wanting, looking, seeking the "no self" knowing. I wanted to know. Who wanted? I can't find the source of that question, so it becomes questioning, like wanting, like breathing.

Further, right Elena?

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:53 pm

Yes, wonderful, exactly - there is no feeling of liberation. Life was before just as life is now. "No self" is just a concept nowhere to be found. Self was never before, self is nowhere now - simple - it was never existed. Just a construct in the mind that dropped, and seeing happening of what is true.

Look and tell me is there a you in any shape or form in the reality?

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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby Elena » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:36 am

Jimmy, I don't need you to back of every time I am asking you a question. I want you to lay out everything you've got. I am not asking you for specific answers, I am just asking you to see where you are. But hiding it will not work. If you saw, then there will be no problem for you to engage with my questions. If you don't' - we need to look. You do not give me much now, and i really don't know where you are. Something tells me you've seen, but the reluctancy to answer and write about it and else, just by my experience in it, tell me that you are either 1. busy 2.something happened in your life and you suddenly needed to take care of it. 3. no clarity, and this means to me that even if you had a gloms, it may be temporary - a state, and you will get back to confusion later again. So if not 1 and 2. please come back and let's either finish it or go ahead with looking.

What would you say on this question: " Is there you in any shape or form in the reality?"

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jimmy
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Re: Say "I". What does that point to?

Postby jimmy » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:54 pm

Thank you for coming to get me. It is number 3. There is no clarity. It's a vague idea which always proves itself to be true, but "I" am appearing as the resistance or refusal to "see" this.

" Is there you in any shape or form in the reality?"

I honestly cannot find a "me." I can see thoughts that arise and point to an idea of me, but I am able to see that they are thoughts, labels, ideas. There is a loop that circles like this: I never have anything because there is no me to have anything. "No me" cannot ever have anything. There will never be "me" having. Who has? Having is a verb like breathing and seeing. Who has? No thing. MU! That's Joshu's dog. What is? Life flowing. The idea of "I" overlays what is and hides the truth. The gateless gate. That covering over, that veil is Maya, The Great White Whale. NO THING ever has anything.

I will stay close to the task.


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