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[justsomeguy]

Over the past few months I've been reading the posts on this forum and I have read the book. I know intellectually that there is no room for a me in reality. I have examined my thoughts and actions to try to see this in the same way you all do but it seems as though there's something in the way.

Sometimes I sit and clear my mind and everything seems clear. I see that it is totally illogical that 'I' agree that there is no 'me' and when this hits me I start laughing. Other times, I feel bad about the past even though I recognise that right now, there is nothing happening to make me sad. I feel nervous about the future even though I realise how stupid it is.

It seems as though I'm nearly there. I feel so frustrated and angry that I just can't seem to get this. It seems impossible. After all how can 'I' see that there is no 'me' ?

Just posting on this forum has taken more effort than anything I can remember and I don't know why. This is difficult to talk about for some reason. Can someone help me?

[vinceschubert]

Ok justsomeguy, give me a name to call you or we can go with jsg if you like.
This works best if you agree to stay all the way and to attend to this every day. Agree ?
Now that you have read books and threads and have an intellectual understanding, we need to put it all aside for the moment and work only with your direct experiencing.
i will ask questions and you will answer with what comes to you immediately, no editing. There is no right answer, there is only what is happening for you.

Now, tell me what are your expectations about going through this ?
What are your hopes ?

Just posting on this forum has taken more effort than anything I can remember and I don't know why. This is difficult to talk about for some reason.

When you consider this, is it fear you experience ?

[justsomeguy]

Call me Brad. Ill stay to the end and I have the free time to do this every day yes.

My expectations are that when I see I will have the freedom to do whatever I feel like in the given moment without the fear of moral consequence. In other words, true freedom as opposed to the illusion of freedom that everyone thinks they have but cannot exercise for fear of how their actions will reflect on them as a person.

When you consider this, is it fear you experience ?

YES! Fear that I will lose everything that means anything to me. Fear that without the self to regulate me, I will act in a way that others find to be disagreeable or whatever.

[vinceschubert]

Morning Brad, you say;

for fear of how their actions will reflect on them as a person.

When you say "person", describe Brad as a person.

Fear that without the self to regulate me

Do you think we are going to kill a self or discover that there never was a self ?

[justsomeguy]

When you say "person", describe Brad as a person.

Hard question really. I've always just seemed to take the word for granted without ever trying to question what it means to me. It seems the 'person' is used to collect together how I and everyone else views me. For example, am I good, bad, kind, quick to anger, etc. I sort of see the absence of it as a real thing when I try to look at it but I don't know how to take this further.

Do you think we are going to kill a self or discover that there never was a self ?

Everything I've experienced would say that there never was a self. I see now that nothing will really change when I see as there never was a 'self' to regulate me to begin with. And when I said fear I'm not sure now that it was accurate. I'm excited to see this its probably more real to say doubt than fear.

[vinceschubert]

but I don't know how to take this further.

Who ? is going to take What ? further ?
Brad, whether you realise it or not, you just took a big step towards a new experiencing of Life-ing.
Most important, BE Relaxed with this.
We are lifting rocks to see what is under them and don't want to disturb what is there too much before observing.

It seems the 'person' is used to collect together how I and everyone else views me.

So you are saying that Brad, the person is just your and others opinions and judgements aimed at the physical organism ?
Is there an 'essence' of Brad anywhere ?

its probably more real to say doubt than fear.

Are these things about the future ? (what you imagine will happen but hasn't happened yet)

[justsomeguy]

We are lifting rocks to see what is under them and don't want to disturb what is there too much before observing.

I get that. And I think that your right I should just relax.

So you are saying that Brad, the person is just your and others opinions and judgements aimed at the physical organism ?
Is there an 'essence' of Brad anywhere ?

Yes exactly that. And no there isn't. It's not real it just seems to be thoughts in peoples heads.

Are these things about the future ? (what you imagine will happen but hasn't happened yet)

Yes what I imagine will happen.

[vinceschubert]

what I imagine will happen

More thoughts, just as memory is thought.
Thought = story !
So can you think of anything outside of your actual, now, experiencing that is not a story ?

Brad, tell me how the illusion of self works. How did it start. How is it maintained ?

[justsomeguy]

More thoughts, just as memory is thought.
Thought = story !
So can you think of anything outside of your actual, now, experiencing that is not a story ?

No nothing is outside of my actual now that is real. Everything else is just story as you say.

Brad, tell me how the illusion of self works. How did it start. How is it maintained ?

The illusion of self comes from memory of the past. We automatically seem to just accept that our past actions resulted in us being where we are right now. This gives us the impression that what we do in the now will affect our future in a certain way. Every action or thought or whatever is added to the 'story' of 'I' and we work out how the story changes and what light it casts us in as a 'person' as I said earlier. This is how we maintain the illusion.

[vinceschubert]

Brad, How does it feel to see that self was always just a concept, an illusion ?

Tell me what your expectations are now, at this stage of the process.

Brad, How would you describe this to somebody who has never heard about the fictitious nature of self ?

[justsomeguy]

Brad, How does it feel to see that self was always just a concept, an illusion ?

The same as before mostly apart from that I can just drop how I'm feeling at any given point and just relax. Can't really explain it more than this. It just seems funny to me that people get so upset about things that aren't even real.

Tell me what your expectations are now, at this stage of the process.

I don't really have any. It seems as though I knew forever. Is there any way to gain a deeper understanding of this?

Brad, How would you describe this to somebody who has never heard about the fictitious nature of self ?

I would say that everything that is real is right in front of them. So plain and obvious to see yet they do not look. They build all of these mental concepts that feed their selves in a never ending cycle of worry and regret when none of it is necessary, just all for the sake of its self. I would tell them to just look. It seems so simple now but when I had the same instructions given to me I didn't understand. Its so subtle it passes everyone by.

[justsomeguy]

To elaborate on my last point. When I was told to look, I was looking for the 'truth' of no me. I would just stare blankly at whatever was in front of me with the frustration of not seeing. I never realised that the not seeing was the point all along. What I mean is, now when I look, I see everything that is right in front of me, everything that is real, but no self, and that's the whole point haha. Thats what I was looking for, the truth of right now, and everything else isn't real.

[vinceschubert]

Brad, What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

[justsomeguy]

More thoughts, just as memory is thought.
Thought = story !
So can you think of anything outside of your actual, now, experiencing that is not a story ?

This bit made me see. After I realised what the self was in terms I could understand. It was easier to see that it was outside of reality and false.

[vinceschubert]

Morning Brad, here we have a policy that three other guides need to confirm that you are through the gate - and that is done. Welcome.
This is just a beginning (of a de-conditioning process) and you face a new Life-ing now. There will be lots for you to consider. Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in Unleashed, so friend me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert
here is another forum for the newly awakened;
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... m.php?f=30
and a small doc worth reading here;http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
and a great video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E