Standing on the edge

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Haileygirl
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Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:09 pm

Hello. I am perusing this site and trying to get the courage to post. Right now my heart is fluttering/pounding. Every time I get here it starts to do this and I feel shaky and nauseous. I thought I would start here and make it short.....and hope I don't die from a heart attack..lol

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:40 am

Hi Haileygirl .I will be working with you .lets start :what are your expectations from getting liberated ? What do you expect from this conversation ?write them down .what does the word "I" mean to you ?what does it point to ?

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:45 pm

First off, I would like to thank you for your reply and taking the time to lend your guidance. I am grateful to have this experience with you.

what are your expectations from getting liberated ? I am hoping to experience the rest of my life from a place of love and connectedness with all that is. When I hear Byron Katie or Eckhart Tolle, I think, I want that!

What do you expect from this conversation? I hope to get some clarity on what is holding me back from letting go of this identity and finding that peace of mind I long for.

What does the word I mean to me? I is my personality......my life experiences. My thoughts about life, my intellect...etc. However I believe that this isn't really me.....on a spiritual level....but I haven't been able to go beyond this belief and realize it. Well, that may not be entirely true. I realize it when I am alone or when things are 'mellow' in life. But when challenges arise I struggle. I would like to stop struggling.

What does I point to? Me....my body....my life experiences.

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:45 am

Hi ,
I am hoping to experience the rest of my life from a place of love and connectedness with all that is.
See .All of your expectations stand on an unquestioned assumption. One unchallenged belief. That belief is "I" .
When I hear Byron Katie or Eckhart Tolle, I think, I want that!
One important thing to ask is, that whatever teachings, beliefs or spiritual practices, you have acquired along your journey till now; Please put them aside until this conversation is over. All I can do here is give you questions and The work is yours to do.
I hope to get some clarity on what is holding me back from letting go of this identity and finding that peace of mind I long for.
The most universal of all desires in man is unequivocally expressed in the spontaneous statement made by all alike: ‘I want peace of mind’. Leave all this behind and take a fresh look.
I is my personality......my life experiences. My thoughts about life, my intellect...etc. However I believe that this isn't really me.....on a spiritual level....but I haven't been able to go beyond this belief and realize it. Well, that may not be entirely true. I realize it when I am alone or when things are 'mellow' in life. But when challenges arise I struggle. I would like to stop struggling.Me....my body....my life experiences.
Say I was thinking about batman. Does that mean batman exists? Nope. But, the thought about batman exists. Moreover, batman relates to a man wearing a suit. It is tangible, even if it doesn't exist. It's something you can visualize. can you say the same thing about "I" ?. It's just this concept that has absolutely no basis in reality.Basically you are simply a biological machine, no more special on any spiritual level than an ant, or a rock.

when i say "There is no self at all in reality. No you that lives life." ,what comes up? Is there fear? Is there doubt? Resistance? Frustration?Notice all that is going on inside and just put it down in writing.

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:47 pm

When i say "There is no self at all in reality. No you that lives life." ,what comes up? Is there fear? Is there doubt? Resistance? Frustration?Notice all that is going on inside and just put it down in writing.

To be honest, there is doubt. How can this be true. My whole experience of life thus far has been about Sheila (my name). She who thinks, feels, interacts, and responds to life in her own way. This is reinforced by my family And friends.

When I sit with this 'notion' and start to truly question it and begin to feel the possibility in the truth there is no me, my heart pounds, I begin to feel weak and I want to stop....turn away.....go do laundry or talk to someone so I feel 'grounded' again. That's why I came here. To face this fear.....of going insane. Of alienating myself from family and friends. Of losing something.
And on the other hand, I see the insanity of how I've lived until this point and the insanity of the world. 
I have been sitting with your analogy of batman and it makes sense.....and when I apply the concept to Sheila,  I 'shut down' at a certain point.  I'm terrified. How do you get someone to move beyond this terror. I can believe that it's irrational and even know it on some level.....but the reaction still happens. It's visceral and automatic.
Thank you for listening.

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:21 am

Hi sheila ,

You won't lose anything,Sheila . This isn't scary. You won't vanish and disappear. You'll just see the pattern that there was never anything to call I. And that recognition frees you, it ceases this worry of what'll happen to a non-existent you. It lets you be fully integrated with the world you're in, no-resistance, just perfect acceptance of what is, because there's nothing to be afraid of, not even fear itself. Take a look at what fear is. Not the content. What is it? Where does it exist? Is fear a real object? What is it protecting? Is there anything behind the fear?

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:01 pm

What is fear? It is a feeling i have and a physical response to that feeling. I can see we need fear in order to survive on a physical level. Or maybe not. Do we need to fear a dangerous situation in order to avoid it. Hmmmmm, what is it protecting then and where is it?! It seems to be in my head/thoughts. When I go behind the fear there is nothing.....emptiness. 

Before I went out to run errands this morning I really focused on this...no I. My thoughts are not Me.  Your words are very reassuring to me. It's like I just need to be told not to be afraid! :)  I had a lovely morning and everyone was so friendly and I felt safe and open. I really enjoyed this state of relaxed calmness. I am not my thoughts. Sheila doesn't exist. It's slowly beginning to sink in. 

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:03 pm

What is fear protecting? I guess that would be my false sense of self........my ego.

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Hi ,
It seems to be in my head/thoughts. When I go behind the fear there is nothing.....emptiness.
yes fear or any sensations are not, couldn't, never did, nor will ever come from some actual thing called a self.Take another look. Is that sensation alone or is there more going on before the sensation starts. Where does it begin? Trace it.
Before I went out to run errands this morning I really focused on this...no I.
how did you do that ?
My thoughts are not Me.I am not my thoughts.
Look at the 'I' that has these thoughts.... that is doing the looking. What is it? Where is it? What is it made of?
Sheila doesn't exist. It's slowly beginning to sink in.
Yeah, it sounds as if you're trying to force this as a belief in order to see it. You see it's credibility, but not the actual absence of a you in reality. What lives life? Actually look for the answer, in this moment, here and now. Don't agree. Find out. Don't agree to anything not investigated thoroughly.

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:55 pm

Take another look. Is that sensation alone or is there more going on before the sensation starts. Where does it begin? Trace it.
I can easily see how my 'thoughts' about the future bring on this fear. It begins with this.

Before I went out to run errands this morning I really focused on this...no I.
how did you do that ?

I did that by asking often: who is thinking this? or who is doing that? And then thinking: it is not me.

Look at the 'I' that has these thoughts.... that is doing the looking. What is it? Where is it? What is it made of?

very good questions! It seems like the 'I' that has these thoughts is my brain. My brain thinks. The 'I' that is looking.....my eyes and brain again. It's in my head and made up of grey matter. So that's my first response......hmmmmm.

Yeah, it sounds as if you're trying to force this as a belief in order to see it. You see it's credibility, but not the actual absence of a you in reality. What lives life? Actually look for the answer, in this moment, here and now. Don't agree. Find out. Don't agree to anything not investigated thoroughly.

Yes, thank you for recognizing this forcing. What lives life? I've been sitting here and I don't know. I don't know what lives life. Energy is all that comes to mind. I feel like I'm stuck.....failing. At least I'm not afraid anymore.

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:57 pm

I just realized there is a post reply button in addition to the quick reply.....I will use that in the future for more clarity when I write. : )

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:36 am

Hi ,
I did that by asking often: who is thinking this? or who is doing that? And then thinking: it is not me.
Let’s take a look at thought. What is the source of all the thoughts, even the “I” thought? can you control thoughts? stop/start/pause them?Do you have a choice about what thoughts come? Do you decide to have a thought and then it shows up, or does it just show up?
It seems like the 'I' that has these thoughts is my brain. My brain thinks. The 'I' that is looking.....my eyes and brain again.
is it "your" brain thinking ? is it "your" eyes looking ? It's not as if you existed, and then a body with eyes and brain was handed over to you. They're not yours Sheila. Check out is it that when you came into existence, and then owned those eyes, and then began using or controlling them. What are you referring to when you say “my brain ,my eyes, my thoughts”? What does my refer to? what is this that has a "brain,eyes,thoughts...etc"?

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:53 pm

Do you decide to have a thought and then it shows up, or does it just show up?

Thoughts seem to mostly show up, but sometimes i think I have control over them.  So now I'm sitting here trying to think of something first and then think it.....haha. Can't be done! Okay.....moving on.

It's not as if you existed, and then a body with eyes and brain was handed over to you.

Actually, this is a belief I DO have.....that I existed before I was born and this body was handed over to me. Are we on to something here? 
Hope you're still around to answer soon. In the meantime I will sit with your reply. It seems to open up more possibilities when I look at it again.

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Rohit
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Rohit » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:23 am

Hi ,
Thoughts seem to mostly show up, but sometimes i think I have control over them. So now I'm sitting here trying to think of something first and then think it.....haha. Can't be done! Okay.....moving on.
This is self contradictory. Either you control the thoughts or you don't. Its really that simple. You can't have it both ways. Either you are flying the plane or you are not.IS there some kind of autopilot mechanism that kicks in as soon as you stop controlling the thoughts?
Actually, this is a belief I DO have.....that I existed before I was born and this body was handed over to me. Are we on to something here?
It's you that doesn't exist, sheila. The you. You literally refers to nothing.It's just assumed that there's something there. There isn't. There's no you. was it YOUR choice to be born to your parents? was it your parents choice to have YOU as their child? did YOU decide the time and place of birth?
Hope you're still around to answer soon. In the meantime I will sit with your reply. It seems to open up more possibilities when I look at it again.
I am in India i.e GMT+5.30 .what about you ? write down all the possibilities you think ?

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Haileygirl
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Re: Standing on the edge

Postby Haileygirl » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:58 pm

Sorry for the delay in responding.

This is self contradictory. Either you control the thoughts or you don't. 

Actually I meant that I realize my thoughts just happen and I am not in control of them.

Was  it YOUR choice to be born to your parents? was it your parents choice to have YOU as their child? did YOU decide the time and place of birth?

I am a little confused. On some level I guess I do believe this 'idea'. But I don't think it matters if I believe it or not. Who cares if it was a choice. So I don't know. So 'who' am 'I' talking about? I have always had a sense of something within me beyond my body and thoughts. The two are very intertwined at this point and who are you talking to and who is answering? I need some clarity here. Who needs clarity? I don't know.......the unreal Sheila I guess.

What about you ? write down all the possibilities you think ?

I am in San Diego CA. I think I just did.


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