The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there is no one that goes by this name.
I often notice thoughts that start with 'I' and they seem quite absurd. When this occurs, the thought 'what?' comes up, followed by no thoughts for some time. At times I chuckle at this.
However, I still feel like 'I' exist somehow but can't find 'me' when I look, which is very strange.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide who can help detect beliefs in me and areas I can work on. I have used intellectual understanding to spiritually bypass in the past and I hope to avoid this kind of pitfall in the future. I want to fully obliterate 'self' as 'this' has become the focal point of my life.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am currently working with 'fetters', so I hope that someone who is familiar with these could guide me along.
I would hope that a guide could uncover hidden beliefs in me and point my mind in the right direction of investigation.
I'm not fully sure what to expect from a guide as I have never worked with one.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Because of a general dissatisfaction with life, I turned to spirituality and found non-dual teachers on the internet. I was introduced to self-inquiry and had a no-self experience for the first time.
Afterwards, I concluded that I didn't exist and went about my life, reminding myself 'I don't exist' every time I experienced suffering. A few months afterwards, I realised this wasn't helping, and I returned to spirituality once again.
I chanced upon Angelo Dilullo's book, and through reading it and practising self-inquiry in the way that he describes, I finally saw through the illusion of a separate self.
A started to believe my thoughts much less and experience life much more clearly, but there was still a fair amount of suffering, albeit significantly less. I continued watching Angelo's Youtube videos and stumbled upon his 'fetter' interviews with Kevin Schanilec.
I realised that in terms of fetters, the first 3 had broken down but my reactivity was still causing me to push and pull at life, which was causing suffering.
Through inquiry, I feel that I have recently broken the 4th and 5th fetters, and I am now working with the 6th fetter of subject-object.
The suffering that used to drive my seeking and inquiry feels like it has been reduced by 80-90%, and now curiosity is mostly what pushes me further towards 'this'. After seeing how much of my experience was not really 'true', I want to fully experience reality as it is, just as it is.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Good morning,

LU does not guide with the fetters. We only point to no self. Yes, the first 3 usually fall together.

If that has happened, you don't need us. You might look up Pernille Damore's youtube guiding.

If you'd like to confirm your seeing of no self, you could answer our "final" questions to see if there is anything to work with here, but otherwise, you will want to look elsewhere.

Thank you,

Hi Tyler, let's start with these questions...
Answer from your current experience.
Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
Is there an actual past or future?
How do you relate to your thoughts?
How do you relate to your emotions?
Has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
what is your relationship to life?
Are there doubts? if so please describe them.
If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
Try to be concise, It should not take a book to answer these questions!
Thoughts, concerns, comments ?

vince

Hi Vince,

Q: Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
A: No

Q: Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
A: No, but the sense of an "observer" or "awareness" occasionally arises in thought, though it is just thought-stuff

Q: Is there an actual past or future?
A: No, it can only be found as thought

Q: How do you relate to your thoughts?
A: Thoughts come and go like sensations come and go

Q: How do you relate to your emotions?
A: Emotions come and go like thoughts come and go

Q: Has your relationship to other people changed?
A: I guess you could say there's no relationship between any separate people. Conventionally though, not really, but there are much less thoughts about "other people".

Q: How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
A: Conflict and problems are very light because there can only really be conflict of belief/"self-interest", so the whole thing is make-believe from the start. Still, when there's an inclination to do something about a conflict, I do it.

Q: What is your relationship to life?
A: I don't understand this question. If you mean "life" as in all this here, it's really just this with no relationship.

Q: Are there doubts? if so please describe them.
A: I have no doubts because I have nothing to doubt. I'm not certain of anything.

Q: If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
A: "I" is just a speaking convention. You could say there's no one who's not the separate self because there's no one who could be or not be any kind of self.

Hope this was concise enough hahahah. Thanks for taking the time vince.

tyler

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

1) No sir no self here haha. Even the possibility of there being any sort of entity is just an idea. You can't find any entities in direct experience.

2) It seems like the sense of self arises when a thought is believed and then another thought arises in response to it. The more this happens, the more the 'self' feels solidified. For example, I used to have a thing about getting enough sleep. If I had to get up early for work the next day and it was already late at night, I would have the thought "Oh no I'm not gonna get enough sleep so I'm gonna feel like shit tomorrow" then "I have to sleep now to maximise my sleep" then I would go to bed TRYING to go to sleep. But more and more thoughts would arise like "I can't sleep" "I'm not gonna be able to do my work tomorrow" "OK I just have to go to sleep now" "Why am I not falling asleep yet?" "What if I can't fall asleep for another hour?" "Tomorrow's gonna be such a bad day" and so on. Each of these thoughts is based on prior assumptions and when the thoughts are believed, other thoughts arise in reaction to them. This of course causes a lot of emotional reaction.
After seeing through 'self' and more deeply, 'thought', thoughts still arise but they are quickly seen through. A thought may arise but it's seen to not be valid or true in any way, so there is less emotional response and it doesn't propagate into a whole train of thought that feels like 'self'ing.

3) Feels good, feels light. With every 'shift' came the feeling of a burden or load being lifted off my mind-shoulders. Everything happens much more effortlessly and worrying has ceased.

4) There were some inquiries like "who am I?" or "where is the experiencer/thinker?". The insights definitely occurred in chunks. There was a point after spending some time in a no-mind state when I had completely seen through thought as a whole, how "things happening" or "self/no-self" or "being/not-being" or "true/false" were all based on concept. And then it became impossible to believe in any concept or thought at all. Kinda like Santa Claus, but anything outside of the 5 senses is Santa Claus.

5a) Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all just concepts/perceptual overlays. There can be thoughts about doing something and then the actual doing of the thing, but that doesn't indicate control or intention. If we go deeper, we can see how things don't happen and there's no way that anything works. You can't even know that 5 seconds ago really "happened", you only have thoughts about it. Time and continuity have fallen for me and without those, there can't be things happening or anyone making a decision in a prior point in time about a later point in time.

5b) Responsibility assumes someone to be responsible. "Things happening" assumes time. This question is poking at the absolute/unexplainable and it's impossible to give an accurate answer from "the whatever outside concept".

6) I want to add a disclaimer that none of what I have written is believed to be true. There's no way to describe what "the whatever" actually is, because it doesn't even begin to "is" or "is not", so anything you say about it cannot be accurate, including this sentence.

hi Tyler, just one question came back. "what is the nature of your conventional, objective experience?"

vince

Heya, there's no specific nature/way my experience is. It's just whatever's appearing at the time.