Personality, Free Will and the No Self

[LisaFellowes]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That we are living in the illusion of being an individual, a 'self' that is running the show, controlling everything and operating as an individual. My understanding and feeling is that 'thought' (and conditioning / upbringing / society) creates the self or ego that we are generally led to believe is our self, the 'I'.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for further clarity around the concept of 'no self' and what 'free will' is in this context. I also would like clarity over the fact that each person has a unique personality and how that fits with 'no self' and the interconnectedness of all humans, animals and nature. Strange that writing this requires the use of 'I', 'me', 'I'm' - our societal language forces us / constrains us into reinforcing the sense of 'self'.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would expect to be taken through a process of conversations, exercises and feedback / guidance that will help me experience, understand and 'know' no-self and my questions around free will and personality.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I'm a Mindfulness teacher and over the last four years I have been reading a lot around the subject of thought, self and awakening. I have read Rupert Spira and done some of his meditations, I have read Darryl Bailey and some Jean Klein and I practice Yoga in the Kashmir style with Billy Doyle (a student of Jean Klein).

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Steve101]

Hi, My name is Steve and I can be your guide, if you would like.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day.. If you need more time, or are unable to post for a couple of days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on Direct or actual experience (DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for your response and for agreeing to guide me. I can confirm that I have read the disclaimer and the 'Is Not' document.

Please call me Lu. I'm the UK, so on British Summer Time.

If I may, I will reply separately to your questions. I'm going to sit with your questions and will respond a bit later.

Thank you once again and I look forward to travelling through this process with you.

With best wishes,

Lu

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for your response and for agreeing to guide me. I can confirm that I have read the disclaimer and the 'Is Not' document.

Please call me Lu. I'm the UK, so on British Summer Time.

If I may, I will reply separately to your questions. I'm going to sit with your questions and will respond a bit later.

Thank you once again and I look forward to travelling through this process with you.

With best wishes,

Lu

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Steve,

Thank you again for offering to guide me. I sat with your questions and have answered them as honestly as I can;

How will life change?

Life is. Nothing will change as it is Life, which is also constant change.

How will you change?

I am an expression of Life, so I change from moment to moment. But relating to my initial questions around free will and personality with the no-self, I hope to get a felt sense of understanding, rather than intellectual understanding.

What will be different?

Everything and nothing.

What is missing?

I don’t feel that anything is missing.


Really looking forward to this journey with you.

With gratitude,

Lu

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lu,

Your expectations are pretty reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Relief, and recognition of this feeling, this knowing, from childhood. And sadness that we aren’t encouraged to hold on to this feeling from childhood and that it isn’t reinforced as we grow. And a feeling of frustration about being lied to / duped into believing there is a separate self.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Lu. Fear and expectations are the only things that can prevent our seeing there is no self. We also call these stories or thought stories, as they are made up. They could even be called, "lies"

Please watch this:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

PS - In your title, you refer to "The No Self." Don't make that mistake. There is no *thing* called a "no self." There simply is nothing there to see at all.

These pointers can show you that very clearly.

Much love,

[LisaFellowes]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, feeling very clear about this, thank you.

[LisaFellowes]

PS - In your title, you refer to "The No Self." Don't make that mistake. There is no *thing* called a "no self." There simply is nothing there to see at all.

I understand. Calling it 'the no-self' makes it an object, which doesn't exist.

[Anastacia42]

Good. By the way, I'll usually reply once a day.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Going to bed
Seeing my bed and pyjamas, simply = image / colour
Smelling the freshly laundered bed sheets, simply = smell
Feeling the softness of the sheets as I get into bed, simply = sensation
Tasting the toothpaste in my mouth from cleaning my teeth, simply = taste
Hearing the bedside lamp click as it turns off, simply = sound
Thought about going to sleep and the time my alarm will go off in the morning, simply = thought



Waking Up
Waking up and seeing the room, simply = image /colour
Smelling my sleepy smells, simply = smell
Feeling the discomfort in my back, simply = sensation
Tasting my morning mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the outside sounds of morning busyness, simply = sound
Thoughts about my day ahead, simply = thought



Cleaning my teeth
Seeing the toothbrush, simply = image / colour
Smelling the toothpaste, simply = smell
Feeling the vibration of bristles against the gums, simply = sensation
Tasting the minty toothpaste, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the electric toothbrush, simply = sound
Thoughts about whether my teeth are as clean as they can be, simply = thought

Walking down the street
Seeing the people and traffic, simply = image / colour
Smelling the drains and the fumes, simply = smell
Feeling the stress of busy people around me, simply = sensation
Tasting the leftover taste of coffee in my mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the sounds of traffic and people talking, simply = sound
Thoughts about whether to cross the road, simply = thought



Doing some work
Seeing my laptop, simply = image / colour
Smelling my herbal tea, simply = smell
Feeling the coolness of the keys on my laptop as I type, simply = sensation
Tasting the leftover taste of my lunch, simply = taste
Hearing the sounds of my co-working space, simply = sound
Thinking about what to write in my email, simply = thought



Eating Lunch
Seeing my sandwich, simply = image/colour
Smelling the baguette and cornichon, simply = smell
Feeling the rough texture of the baguette in my mouth, simply = sensation
Tasting the combination of flavours, simply = taste
Hearing the sounds of biting into the baguette, simply = sound
Thinking about whether to have a cookie, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Lu, (8 am here)

Those are great. You've got it. Now let's take it a bit further:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Good Morning Stacey,

This is a lovely exercise :)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

I am sitting on a chair in front of my laptop
I am hearing my friend talk on the phone
I am looking at the room and my laptop
I am feeling hungry and achy

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

Sitting,
Typing,
Stretching,
Hearing,
Breathing,
Blinking,
Swallowing,
Smelling,
Seeing.

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

They are both happening, whether they are labelled with the ‘I’ or not. It is happening. The senses experience what is happening. The body functions and life happens through me and around me. So that means the second is truer, as it happens anyway.

2. What is here without labels?

Everything is. Everything is here as an experience, whether it is labelled or not.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels describe the experience but do not affect the experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Not really. My body was relaxed throughout both exercises. No contraction and therefore no relaxing after noticing a contraction.



I hope you're having a great morning.