The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
No subject entity that is observing life manifesting (object) thru this body.
Just an attachment what ever goes on gross or subtle field of happenings.

What are you looking for at LU?
Just to check out that mind didn't play any trick with me. I will use I, me and self in conversation as technical meaning to addres this life manifestation of body that writes to you. Also you, he ,him, theirs...ect. are about self expresing in others.
I think I start with the pealing process like onion, steped through the gates. Just wanna be sure...

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
No expectation...just clear feedback.
If tweaks are necessary than it should happen so to be 100% on right track.
If there is some questions to find answers ir help me get one. Tips perhaps how to help others too...will see about that.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Sufism, bhakti yoga, UG krishnamurti, WeiWuWei...decades ago Jed Mckenna, jiddu krishnamurti, butterflies are free to fly.
(Most of it I don't remember, so I guess it doesn't matter)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Hi Indivindi
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love

indivindi, is that what you want me to call you?

Hei hei there Rali,
Thanx for becoming my guide.
Some people call me indi others call me vindi. 😉
It's up to you.

I read what LU isn't several time as I like what is not.

What time zone are you in?

Central European Summer Time
Time zone in Ljubljana (GMT+2)
Monday, 1 April 2024, 00:07

Today is a fools day in our country 😂 1st of April
Great day to start with journey.
I am ready to start, I will find time for daily communication with you.
Thank you for tips, lets do it.
Hear from you,
indi

Hi Indi

Today is a fools day in our country 😂 1st of April
Great day to start with journey.

:))

Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

Central European Summer Time
Time zone in Ljubljana (GMT+2)

I'm also GMT+2. Perfect :). I’m in South Africa but I’m originally Bulgarian.

I am ready to start, I will find time for daily communication with you.
Thank you for tips, lets do it.

Great!

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

Good morning...
I decided to stop reading books for a while in the morning and spend time only on this topic.
I read questions yesterday and had intense dreams looking for myself.
Then I almost crashed the car into a big bus and stopped waking up before it happened.
I was watching some clips yesterday evening about driving in south Asia.
That's how the mind is gluing happenings together.

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

No difference, life goes on its own way as always did.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

No one here to expect anything.

I tested myself in the last few months so much that I figured out also while reading books on related topics that wishes & desire mostly result in becoming disappointed. So I stop expecting things to happen my way, rather observing what is coming on.
Sometimes my expectations also destroy parts of happenings that I like, as I expect to expand it or make it something as my mind builds up. This is my old mode of functioning, since last November things just went their own way as I finally let go of strings of fictive control. Also researching the topic who am I, where is Me Myself and I.

3. What do you want not to happen?

Life is happening in its own way. There isn't anyone who wants a thing. If something doesn't exist, wanting to happen doesn't exist either.

I had a phrase saying "I am surfing through the waves of life and when I fall down from the surfboard, you just pick yourself up and go on ''...that's about life. Now while reading the last books on self topic I see there is a board, waves, life but no surfer (I) just surfing happening. I catch myself regularly noticing a false mind set on a daily basis, thoughts appearing. Especially at the beginning of the process if you really put observing on it and look for it you'll find false interpretation and personification on things that happen to you.

4. What are you hoping for?

No hopes here. If something is going on, that's what it is ... is observing what is happening.

They say hope dies last. But here is the knowledge that it is a mind self perpetual construct.

5. What is missing?

All it is as it is.

But wishes still pop up here and there...and I ask myself whose wishes are they? If there is no I.  While observing is happening things just melt down and puff no-thing.  Blank out and something else comes in...mind, movement, action...

Hi Indi

I decided to stop reading books for a while in the morning and spend time only on this topic.

Great! There is no need for more beliefs. Simple looking is all that is needed

Thank you for your honesty! It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary. Is that OK with you?

No one here to expect anything.

There isn't anyone who wants a thing. If something doesn't exist, wanting to happen doesn't exist either.

That’s not actually completely true. It is actually a spiritual bypassing to claim that just because there is no one, then expectations, hopes, and wishes are non-existent. It’s not that the self existed before to have these thoughts and then when it died the thoughts disappeared. The self was never there to begin with. There might not be anyone these things to happen to, but that doesn’t mean expectations are not there. Is there no more thinking happening? Looking is very much about noticing what is here and what is not, but we’ll familiarise you with that a bit later.

Now… If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?
Love
Rali

Hi Rali...
thank you for pointing out the things. Toward simple looking.
I thought/observed the questioning deeper.

I understand that there is a pile of things I believe even if I don't mention it nor be aware of it. :) Less is More
I thought a bit more about awakening and what I remembered is that like 3 years ago I went to Jyotish consulting. My birth chart is sort of special, at least I took it for granted. But still keep it in mind not to fall too much connected and cocky about it. There was also a part where it was interpreted about me becoming an enlightened or guru type person. With the sort of birth chart that Jesus type of people have. But I kept the safety distance to not overwhelm my head. But still there was sort of belief that become part of me that I will or perhaps I am walking the path of enlightenment. I read in books about saints and god himself walking the earth being enlightened. Somehow these things and descriptions didn't resonate with me. I was always very skeptical and pragmatic. If things didn't happen to me or I didn't try it on my own I could barely just buy it because some guru or so called advanced practitioner told me about it. I observe a lot, compare what people talk, how they live, do they really live what they are explaining and god knows what they think a part for sure I don't see. We are all bloody under the skin and in need for some financial resources. :)
In my nature is to question a lot and speak a lot.

What I got understanding in the last period that my brain glues concepts together somehow through questioning and setting up a belief environment. And as I see it it's perpetual. I notice that always if I figure out some hook in exploring so out of it a question appears and there goes on the seeking thing. Snowball effect. That brought me to LU.
I would be happy to stop seeking and putting things in my head. Although I like exploring, thinking, conceptualizing, puzzling.

What about reading books after seeing? I like to read books. I think I would still like to read books about magic, spirituality, mysticism...or that might change after all?

Is that OK with you?

It's fine with me. I don't have any sort of enlightenment expectation nor for bells ringing when it happens. I am thankful for what life is, how I am situated in it. It's not my life. Life is just happening.

...it is just a subtle shift in perception!

I asked myself about this weeks ago. Who's perception? Who is perceiving that subtle shift?
Or we are just using words to describe what is happening. As a part of communication.
Perhaps all that might be just my knowledge construct that glues me to the idea there isn't any one (I)  here?
Perhaps this is another believe of my and obstacle...hmmm

Hope guiding won't become very difficult for you... I might be a hard nut. You could tell me. Don't hesitate to be raw with me if necessary :)  I just won't pretend what I am not. It never worked out for me.I just answer and be the way I am.

Is there no more thinking happening?

 It is actually a spiritual bypassing to claim that just because there is no one, then expectations, hopes, and wishes are non-existent...etc. There might not be anyone for these things to happen to, but that doesn’t mean expectations are not there. Thanks for this realization.
Yes thinking is happening all the time, all sorts of thinking happens. So wishes and expectations are also just thoughts popping up.
Great :)

If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

I stick to everything that happens in my life. It's everywhere...I own, I feel, I am, I do...you name it. It is projected on gross and subtle stuff happening.

When I close my eyes and sit quietly and start looking within for myself I can't find it. There is just sort of high frequency that I hear in ears or brains, there is just blackness, some contours transparent shapes here and there. That space I would describe and imagine as deep space at night, it is a shallow empty feeling, no stress in life, no stress inside of me. For me it is hard to keep focus to look for that "I" as suddenly thoughts appear and things just go on somewhere else whether I want it or not.
Also if I cover my ears with thumbs I hear and feel heart beat at the ends of my thumbs, also sort of pressured sound, mind wandering what to grasp. Not much there except that.
Looking with the mind in that blank space or sort of toward the heart (I catch myself in it;  it's a thought, words again ponting direction: as I am looking toward the heart). Now I ask myself what the hell am I looking for :)
Can't see any entity or (I) subject in me that would drive/do/live/control this stuff happening as life.

:) end of reading, can't wait for what's coming next :)
Hear from you,
Cheers  indi

Hi Indi

What about reading books after seeing? I like to read books. I think I would still like to read books about magic, spirituality, mysticism...or that might change after all?

What you would do after the inquiry is up to you (we’ll see about that :) ), but I just want as free from ideas during the inquiry as possible.

Thank you for your answers! They give me an idea where to begin. Before we start let’s just make sure that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
Looking is a matter of noticing what is already here, not inventing or imagining something. If I asked you to tell me what is behind your back right now, you could answer by doing one of two things: by thinking and remembering, or by turning your head around and actually looking back and describing what you see. If I ask you to look for your phone or keys, you would quite naturally, take a look and locate them. That’s how to look.
Looking is finding out what is true in experience. It is a nonverbal action of focusing attention on a target. Thinking is verbal—it is naming experience. Both work together as one mechanism. If you can’t see for yourself, you cannot describe it in your own words (but you can attempt to describe it using someone else’s words, from memory).

There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, colour(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
Love
Rali

Zdravo Rali,
very nice clearing out about looking and parallel process thinking/labeling about what we look at - more precisely when looking is happening.

There is a really thin borderline between Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here and mind labeling that experience. Mind starts doing that almost instantly.

So Seeing, Hearing, Sensing, Tasting, Smelling, Thoughts Arising is Happening.
Labeling, Words, Thinking is verbal—it is a naming experience for the sake of communication with others. So we could understand each other that we are talking about something/the same thing. But on some other topic (from thin air) the mind is labeling from memory, as part of life programming. That's why we are not using our words but describing what we have learned about it. And that's how, from that perception most of us live. But what is happening at the moment is that senses are active.

Looking is finding out what is true in experience.
It is a nonverbal action of focusing attention on a target.
I think I got it.

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Apple is a label that describes looking at in a certain direction looking something/object in this case. A picture of an apple. And the word picture is another label.
We can describe an apple with words and characteristics which is labeling/thoughts expressed by mind.
In actual experience there isn't an apple.
There is just looking at something. That's what is the meaning of the word happening and that is Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE) of seeing. Understanding mind is labeling all the time. Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE) is what senses "scan" - without mind interrupting.

:)
Is there a question or not "How to put that realization now on any moment happening in my life or that direct seeing of life will just occur itself in this right way? "
I'll stop here, I am on > II Pause < my thinking I guess should stop here.
Where do we go from here :)

You lead I'll follow

ihaaa, ;)
indi

Hi Indi

Apple is a label that describes looking at in a certain direction looking something/object in this case. A picture of an apple. And the word picture is another label.
We can describe an apple with words and characteristics which is labeling/thoughts expressed by mind.
In actual experience there isn't an apple.
There is just looking at something. That's what is the meaning of the word happening and that is Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE) of seeing. Understanding mind is labeling all the time. Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE) is what senses "scan" - without mind interrupting.

Good! Now look, is there really an object that is looked at? Or is there only seeing/colours that is labelled “apple”/”object”?
“Apple” is a thought/label that points to sensations, taste, smell, and colour, but is there an actual “object” that is seen, smelt, tasted, felt, and labelled? (no matter if it is a picture or real "apple")

There is experiencing/THIS that IS colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation and thought:
coloursoundsmellthoughtsensationtaste = experiencing/THIS

Let’s examine seeing for example. Have a look at this abstract painting.

Seeing can be likened to an abstract painting and if you look at an abstract painting you start to see shapes etc within the painting itself. Those shapes aren’t really there – colours can be grouped in so many other ways. So from that perspective...do the shapes really exist, without the labels/descriptions/identification of shapes? When you look at the painting…all there is, is the paint, only thought divides it into things/objects.
Can you see this?



Thought says that this is a painting of a tree, right?

Can a tree actually be found in the paint?
Does the paint become a tree, or is the tree simply paint which thought then suggests is a tree and is separate to the paint?
Does the tree change or affect the paint in any way or does the paint remain as paint?
So the paint SEEMS to be appearing as a tree, but does it become a tree?
LOOK!
Is there seeing of a tree (object), or just seeing labelled “tree”? Are there distinguishable seer, seeing amd seen, or just seeing (a verb as it is a flux)?
Do “the senses scan” a “world of objects”, or the “world of objects” is a label for experienceing (seeing, smelling, hearing,…)?
Love
Rali

Ehei...
Curtain is unveiling, step by step :)

is there really an object that is looked at? Or is there only seeing/colours that is labelled “apple”/”object”?

Seeing colors that are labeled as something...indeed.
Hearing sounds that are labeled as something...etc.

...do the shapes really exist, without the labels/descriptions/identification of shapes? Can you see this?

Yes I can see where this part brought me. An eye is just seeing colors. Seeing is an experience of sensation. In the case of an eye, sensations are colors, which mind labels as words for it.
Mind is putting things in a certain way.

...do the shapes really exist, without the labels/descriptions/identification of shapes? Can you see this?

I can see adivisions/labels/identifications that mind creates everywhere or on anything happening in life.
Shapes don't exist, mind describes 2D, 3D world into the shapes.

1.Thought says that this is a painting of a tree, right?

Yes, thought is saying and talking all the time about experience & sensations. This is a painting of a tree, that is a picture of an apple.

2.Can a tree actually be found in the paint?

Yes tree is there as thought divides it into things/objects. But...#!?!
NO, No, no ...  what there is, is the paint, colors only as direct experience of seeing.  :)
I remember you said when verbalization from mind comes in division starts.

3.Does the paint become a tree, or is the tree simply paint which thought then suggests is a tree and is separate to the paint?

Paint can't be a tree. There is no tree, just paint/colors that thought separate as tree.
But thought is functioning like that also in the case of the real tree that is growing in soil in the forest.
Actually thought is making division/separation on anything that goes on. hmmm...

4.Does the tree change or affect the paint in any way or does the paint remain as paint?

Paint is paint. Tree doesn't affect or change paint in any way.

5.So the paint SEEMS to be appearing as a tree, but does it become a tree? LOOK!

No paint doesn't become a tree it just seems to appear as a tree as a tree is a thought/labeled by mind.
That's how the mind is functioning, what the mind does. An eye is catching a frequency of light/colors that are made with paint on canvas, mind creates separation/labels for shapes and we say we see tree on a painting.

6.Is there seeing of a tree (object), or just seeing labelled “tree”? Are there distinguishable seer, seeing and seen, or just seeing (a verb as it is a flux)?

We just label everything :) It's just seen as labeled "tree". No object there, just thoughts/labels.
No distinguishing as mind division of seer, seeing and seen. It's just seeing (a verb as it is a flux), something is happening.
If so-called objects are just thoughts/labels then there is also no subject, no need for it ...hmmm...   BI

7.Do “the senses scan” a “world of objects”, or the “world of objects” is a label for experiencing (seeing, smelling, hearing,…)?

Senses just have their own/natural modus operandi. They don't scan anything, they are just ON...like "switch ON". Mind is creating a “world of objects” which are labels for experiencing (seeing, smelling, hearing,…)
Mind is also a label about what is going on around a thought/labeling  process/action/happening.

I feel that sort of strong build Up  :) just how this pointing out process is becoming more and more condense. Climbing to the peak :) I also notice how your communication is clear and is keeping focus. And I notice my paralleled thinking and commenting that might not be necessary at all :)  As you said we will just look and see what it is not what the mind is taking out from memory :)  And the mind is trying to keep itself in the game hehehe as "illusion about how happening is" is piled off slowly but efficiently layer by layer. With each step closer to clear seeing, just happening DE/AE. Another comment/interpretation of my mind :)

Let's just go on...I like THIS what is happening. And thank you for writing daily, spending your time. In the evening I just read your next writing, thought about it a bit and I went to sleep. In the morning I read it again and think about the whole thing, observing...then I go to my computer and Walla there it is...
Hear from you,
indi

Hi Indi

Good looking!

Seeing is an experience of sensation. In the case of an eye, sensations are colors, which mind labels as words for it.

For the sake of clarity of communication let’s stick to the DE labels of seeing/colours, hearing/sounds, tasting/tastes, smelling/smells, feeling/sensations, and thinking/thoughts. Seeing is the experience of colours and feeling is the experience of sensations. This division of course is only created by thought but at the end of the day, concepts are agreed upon carriers of meaning. So let’s agree that “sensations” will refer here only to feeling and not seeing. English is a funny language :)

But thought is functioning like that also in the case of the real tree that is growing in soil in the forest.
Actually thought is making division/separation on anything that goes on. hmmm...

Yes! Well in this case paint was a metaphor for seeing/colours. So when you said: “There is no tree, just paint/colors that thought separate as tree.”, that applies to seeing – there is no tree but seeing labelled ”tree”. Life seems to be a gigantic soup of experience (an abstract picture in a way) that is grouped, categorised and labelled as things. There seems to be a ‘me’ that is ‘here’ that is experiencing things that are ‘outside’, and all those things ‘outside’ are all individual separate things. Sounds overlap each other, and there is a thought that says “I can separate bird song from car horns.” But what is actually appearing is sound, with perhaps a mental image (a.k.a thought) of a bird and a mental image of a car, and thoughts ABOUT sound appearing as a bird and car! So when looked only hearing is found and thinking provides the labels - no birds or cars. Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us - a bird from the sky? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

An eye is just seeing colors.

An eye is catching a frequency of light/colors that are made with paint on canvas, mind creates separation/labels for shapes and we say we see tree on a painting.

If so-called objects are just thoughts/labels then there is also no subject, no need for it ...hmmm... BI

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel', etc.
So how about SEE-ing – THE SEE-er – THE SEEn?

Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.
1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing/witnessing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me'/Indi, a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
Love
Rali

Hey
I forgot to give you one more exercise that I want you to do on a regular basis and report a few with each answer…
Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= colour (seeing)
Smelling the aroma of the coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the bitterness of the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
Love
Rali

Nice hello....
The English language is ok. It was my mistake using the wrong phrase for it :) I am sticking to DE labels.
Thinking is happening mostly in Slovene language and then I write about it in English.

Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us - a bird from the sky? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

No we can’t. It’s a thought process doing division/separation.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes. Blackness is there as an experience of that color.

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

In seeing is just that blackness/color/label.

3) Can what is seeing/witnessing the blackness be found?

You can look but nothing can be found. No subject, no identity, person, no one there/here in blackness.

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me'/Indi, a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

It’s just founding blackness. There is nowhere me, myself and I.

What do you find?

Perhaps that is just awareness itself. It’s a moment, that's what it is.
Labels about it – blakness. It just is.

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found?

Nop, can’t find it.

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

It’s only the mind product…concept/idea/thought.
We are living in head  not as DE.

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise.

Having a email-reply with you in the mornings:

Seeing a monitor & keypad = color (seeing)
Feeling the keys of key pad = sensation (feeling)
Hearing the fingers hitting the keys on keypad = sound (hearing)
Thinking about the answer =Thought (thinking)


Burning the incense:

Seeing the incense box = color (seeing)
Thought which incense scent to choose = thought (thinking)
Feeling a single stick taken out of the box among many of them = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the wheel of lighter turning while lighten the stick = sensation (feeling)
Hearing lighter sparking = sound (hearing)
Seeing the flame at the end of the stick = color (seeing)
Blow out the fire = sensation (feeling)
Seeing the fume = color (seeing)
Smelling the fume = smell (smelling)


Cooking launch:

Looking in refrigerator =color (seeing)
Seeing what is in refrigerator = color (seeing)
Thought about what to cook = thought (thinking)
Taking out cold, different sort of vegetables from refrigerator = sensation (feeling)
Washing vegetables = sensation (feeling)
Hearing tap water while washing vegetables = sound (hearing)
Cutting vegetables on wooden board = sound (hearing)
Smelling the scent of fresh basil, garlic, parmesan cheese being cut = smells (smelling)
Frying spices in wok on olive oil, adding vegetables and at the end salt and tomato sauce =
sounds (hearing) frying
smells (smelling) frying/cooking
sensation (feeling) turning the content in the wok with one hand movement, touching/being burned by the edge of hot wok
color (seeing) steam, wok, ingredient, flame
Thought about which pasta to cook = thought (thinking)


Building a finnish sauna:

Smelling - fine pine wood/boards, the electric screwdriver while overheated from pressure, scent of spring and blooming blossoms nearby brought by wind (smells)
Seeing - tools, material, screws, aluminum foil, thermo wool, saw, space where I assemble parts, wood dust (colors)
Hearing - electric screwdriver motor turning, boards fitting together while screwed, aluminum foil moving, moving wood parts round, falling down of the screw on the floor, saw cutting boards (sounds)
Felling – structure of wood, grip of the tools, softness of grinded wood board, splinter entering the skin on hand, pulling out the splinter from finger, bending down the back to pick up the screw, mounting the wooden wall panel to other panel (sensations)
Thinking – about the length of material, about quantity of screws/foil/wood/thermo wool, about design fit to the space it will be assembled, what to do when board is to short and you cut it too much  (thoughts)
Tasting – holding pencil in your mouth, a wood dust that is blown by the wind in your face and mouth, of the blood while sucking the finger while taking out the splinter (tastes)

All experiences are simultaneously happening and many of them at the same time.
Every single move can be expressed in those basic DE labels.
I'll observe and think of it in that way the rest of the day.

Have a nice weekend...I went to a beach on near by lake yesterday. This is unusual as temperatures are too high for the April. Previous years season starts at least month later. But I don't mind. Three weeks ago I was still skiing on near by resort. :) What a life...

Cheers, indi

Hi Indi

I went to a beach on near by lake yesterday. This is unusual as temperatures are too high for the April. Previous years season starts at least month later. But I don't mind. Three weeks ago I was still skiing on near by resort. :) What a life...

Yeah… we had an unusually long summer (no complains). Things are starting to cool down now

Having a email-reply with you in the mornings:

Seeing a monitor & keypad = color (seeing)
Feeling the keys of key pad = sensation (feeling)
Hearing the fingers hitting the keys on keypad = sound (hearing)
Thinking about the answer =Thought (thinking)

Great! Thank you for doing such wonderful looking! :) It is now to incorporate that looking into your everyday….make it a habit. Please post a couple with each answer to keep the momentum!

How does it feel to see what actually is?

What do you find?

Perhaps that is just awareness itself. It’s a moment, that's what it is.
Labels about it – blackness. It just is.

Can the awareness of the blackness be separated from the blackness? Do you see a border where the awareness ends and the blackness begin? Are there two things - awareness and blackness – or just THIS/ what IS? You said you didn’t come across anyone or anything that is actually seeing colour. If the seeing and colour are one and the same, then where is the awareness that is seeing them? Is the seeing not just happening without a someone/something that is doing the seeing?
When you look carefully…can you actually find anyone/anything that is doing this experiment, who is doing the looking, or is looking just happening without any entity being found?

Love
Rali