Seeking direct experience into my true nature

[alexeloka]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the separate self is a completely false assumption. That it's a creation of the ego/mind that is deeply unconscious and has been reinforced since birth by our parents, education system, society etc

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to have a direct experience or realisation into my true nature. I know first hand from a previous awakening experience that the material world is just a series of concepts. What is a day? What is time? What is right and wrong? All these labels, constructs, language. Preferences, likes, dislikes - are all creations of the mind. Everything just is.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect the concepts I have about my self and life to be challenged in a profound way via a series of questions that make me consciously examine and deduct what's an illusion of the mind vs what is reality.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
* I experienced what I now understand to be a kundalini awakening 3 years ago (on psychedelics)
* Had direct experience of ego death, the light & void
* Changed everything for me since then, I wasn't spiritual in any way before
* Really deepened my meditation practise since - yoga asanas daily and meditate for 1.5+ hours a day
* I've attended an enlightenment intensive 5 day retreat & have done 3 day meditation retreats
* Gap between my thoughts is expanding with focused attention - often it feels like meditation is happening on its own
* 3rd eye open & feel almost constant strong Shakti flow
* During meditation I feel really strong energy flowing all around, feel like it wants to rush out/escape
* Other times, energy rushing or pulling me down/away like super intense gravitational forces
* I understand conceptually about the limitations of the self, I have had a moment of direct experience in the past and I'm trying to relax surrender & let go as much as I can
* Can feel into the aura around the body, at times feels like no separation between body, aura and surrounding space — but that gap hasn’t totally dissipated

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Elad]

Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

5. This process is not about uncovering or resolving/getting help with shadow material. That might happen indirectly, but the process is focused ONLY on recognizing that there is no separate self in control of things. Knowing that, are you still motivated for this process?

Warmly,
Elad

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

Thank you very much for responding and offering to do this exploration with me.

I've read all your points below and the website FAQs etc. I can confirm I'll only answer from my direct experience, will give wholehearted engagement and will report back here with 100% honesty, every day.

I'm aware that the process is focused only on recognising that there is no separate self in control of things.

There's nothing more important to me right now - therefore this is my top priority.

Excited to get started!
Alex

[Elad]

Hi Alex, great!

So tell me, as you look only to direct experience, do you find a self, a separate Alex in control of things? If yes, what is it?

Here's to a liberating exploration!
Elad

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

That’s a great question. That really shook things up.

There’s the sound (of the washing machine or car going by for example); theres a tonne of movement/energy — hard to describe — like really strong swirling gravitational forces that almost turned into what felt like a bubble at times; and there’s a witness to both the sound & energy.

To answer your question, yes. There’s a self, a witness that is “me” and when I explore “me” further it just feels like a thin sheet or veil almost behind or in the middle of the sound & energy.

It feels like the bubble is ready to burst at times and there’s a massive pressure point around what feels like my sinuses or third eye, and “I’m” on the edge or in the middle of that experience. It’s very intense. I can’t describe this separate self as an “it”, it’s more just a location in space. With this pressure, movement/energy & sound around.

That’s how I would describe it. But in terms of control of things. No, it’s more just a location in space witnessing the energy & sound.

[Elad]

Hi Elad

That’s a great question. That really shook things up.

There’s the sound (of the washing machine or car going by for example); theres a tonne of movement/energy — hard to describe — like really strong swirling gravitational forces that almost turned into what felt like a bubble at times; and there’s a witness to both the sound & energy.

To answer your question, yes. There’s a self, a witness that is “me” and when I explore “me” further it just feels like a thin sheet or veil almost behind or in the middle of the sound & energy.

It feels like the bubble is ready to burst at times and there’s a massive pressure point around what feels like my sinuses or third eye, and “I’m” on the edge or in the middle of that experience. It’s very intense. I can’t describe this separate self as an “it”, it’s more just a location in space. With this pressure, movement/energy & sound around.

That’s how I would describe it. But in terms of control of things. No, it’s more just a location in space witnessing the energy & sound.

Hi Alex, great, things are moving.

1) so you are saying that whatever you take to be yourself is not controlling anything? Or is there something?

2) look closer at that something "x" you take to be you. Really look. Is there actually anything except a belief and shifting thoughts and sensations?

3) witnessing (a characteristic of experience itself) happens but can you find any witness (a noun, a separate someone)?

Really make sure to stay with direct experience, just what is sensed prior to conceptualizing thoughts.

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

1. Yes you’re right there is a controlling element. With regards to a) controlling where my attention is focused and b) more subconsciously controlling the filtering of the sounds & emotions — creating a sort of unconscious barrier in some way — not letting them just appear or pass through me. There’s a sort of controlling tension.

2. Agreed, when I really look closer there’s nothing but thoughts/belief and sensations

3. No I can’t find that separate witness. There were moments in that meditation where the sound/music was almost all encompassing & the energy flowed towards it from the X I take to be me. And then it was almost like there was no division between the musical note & ‘X’.

Thank you.

[Elad]

Hi Alex!

"1. Yes you’re right there is a controlling element. With regards to a) controlling where my attention is focused and b) more subconsciously controlling the filtering of the sounds & emotions — creating a sort of unconscious barrier in some way — not letting them just appear or pass through me. There’s a sort of controlling tension."

Look at this some more.

Do you actually control attention? Remember don't analyze it, only look. Sit still, see what happens with attention and if you control it. Let me know what you find.

And regarding subconscious filtering also, do you control this controlling? Is there anything about this that is truly in your control?

Of course conventionally speaking there are all kinds of control going on in normal life. What we look to here is if any of it is truly controlled by a you, a separate self, or if control itself is a spontaneous emergence with no self controlling it.

"2. Agreed, when I really look closer there’s nothing but thoughts/belief and sensations"

This is crucial to separate direct experience from beliefs.

"3. No I can’t find that separate witness. There were moments in that meditation where the sound/music was almost all encompassing & the energy flowed towards it from the X I take to be me. And then it was almost like there was no division between the musical note & ‘X’."

Right! So is there anything constant which is a separate self X?

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

Thanks for your responses!

1. You’re right. Attention happens by itself. It latches onto whichever thought, sensation, sound, on its own. The same for the unconscious filtering. That’s not in my control either. It’s all happening by itself, spontaneously, nothing to do with me. ha!

2. Yes, understood

3. no, I can’t find anything constant which is a separate self X. And when diving into that, there’s just the music and X almost merging together and becoming one. But not completely…

Let me meditate more on that this evening & I will come back to you?

Thank you!

[Elad]

Beautiful Alex, do that.

Also look if there is a resistence to a fluid non separate non agent "sense of self thought"/x to come and go and change by itself? Is there any need for or benefit in such a resistance?

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad!

There definitely is a resistance. But once there’s awareness of that resistance there’s a lot more movement of the sense of self thought in a way & it becomes more fluid like you say. But the resistance is definitely there & I know there’s no benefit to it….

Let me meditate some more on that later.

[Elad]

Hi Elad!

There definitely is a resistance. But once there’s awareness of that resistance there’s a lot more movement of the sense of self thought in a way & it becomes more fluid like you say. But the resistance is definitely there & I know there’s no benefit to it….

Let me meditate some more on that later.

🙏🤍

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

Similar to my last message, there is a resistance to a fluid ‘sense of self’ thought, and when I’m aware of that things shift and it’s almost like the sense of self moves to the next sound/note of the music. But I don’t experience anything beyond that — at least not yet.

Thanks :)

[Elad]

Hi Elad

Similar to my last message, there is a resistance to a fluid ‘sense of self’ thought, and when I’m aware of that things shift and it’s almost like the sense of self moves to the next sound/note of the music. But I don’t experience anything beyond that — at least not yet.

Thanks :)

Fluid sense of self is what is all ready there. That is what you see every time you look and discover that any sener of self is just what occurs now in thoughts and sensations. Its not something to be achieved. Not sure you thought that, but just make sure its clear.

Please examine your own motivation and where your attention goes:

Is it going to (1) seeing what is just there regardless of how it feels? Every time in our investigation where you focus on that you seem to be clear and see that there is no separate self or agent.

Or is it focused on (2) the thoughts about how your experience is across time and ideas that something better or that feels better is to be achieved?

When attention is focused that way (2) it naturally is lost in self fantasy. As long as motivation and attention goes that way, the result will be more selling.

When attention and motivation goes to (1) seeing happens naturally and effortlessly. As you have demonstrated repeatedly in this dialogue so far.

Please examine honestly where your motivation and attention goes and what the effect of it is. None of it is in control or chosen. No need to blame or defend. Only look.

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

“ Fluid sense of self is what is all ready there.”
and (1) “seeing what is just there regardless of how it feels?”

This clarification really helps, thank you!

I agree, when attention and motivation goes to (1) seeing happens naturally and effortlessly.

I found that it requires very little or no effort actually & seems to result in a bigger energy shift or pull. Just seeing the current moment unfolding & letting it be, regardless of the intensity of the feeling. Almost stepping back & residing in the space behind the feeling.

Previously (2) was happening because I was probably more focused on reporting back and describing any changes as opposed to experience.

Thank you — I will give this some more time later