Dakini seeker

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Andyjones
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Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:45 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand the focus of LU is explicitly for this purpose. I understand the concept that what we consider our 'selves', our controlling, directing, continuous-perceived identity is an illusion. LU helps people with a background understanding of this to directly see through the illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
To see the reality / the 'truth’ of the world and get a correct perspective of 'my' experience within that. With regard to LU specifically, I believe that being helped by someone who already knows the terrain, who can challenge and me help get through blocks and avoidances, is likely to be more direct and effective in seeing through the illusion than trying myself with my inherent ‘blind spots’.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect my difficulties in seeing to be understood better than I do, and to be pointed, redirected, challenged when necessary, to increase my focus and help me see and experience more clearly. I guess I would also expect to be supported if necessary, relating to an anxiety about the potential emotional consequences (though I do consider myself emotionally robust). Ive read all the background LU documentation regarding my honesty, avoiding other teachings and am happy to adhere to those. I expect one difficulty for me will be in dropping my analytical mind / approach, though I’m open to doing it if I can be helped find a way!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Ive had a lifelong pre-occupation with self-consciousness, though I cant decide if that has been a hindrance or an advantage. I’ve meditated and been interested in Buddhism on and off for decades, latterly joining Triratna Mitra training but deciding not to commit to year two by becoming a Mitra. Generally I found practitioners in Triratna open and good people but I felt I couldnt adhere to its leader's teaching and example. It didn’t feel right / lack of personal integrity, as though I was signing up to someone else’s belief set, including the ‘magic’ element of ritual. Having said the latter, I was really drawn to the symbolism of the dakini, dancing in open space, with freedom from fear after burning through attachments. That idea still resonates for me, hence the thread suggestion (which feel free to change if you think that carried too much baggage).
Ive had a couple of experiences on retreat which I think are relevant – one when I briefly ‘saw’ / ‘realised’ the illusion of self and one when I was walking in flow. But both were after intense concentration practice. In the first I had a mental image of a chinese ceremonial dragon that thought it was alive without seeing the people underneath, and also an orchestral piece of music that thought it was alive without seeing the players. The walking in ‘flow’ was after coming out from meditation in which I was looking at the interface between inner experience and external stimuli (sound). I found myself walking in the country with everything ‘unfolding’ as I walked.
I’m semi-retired (57), having spent a professional life in healthcare, and this (seeing reality) is what I want to do with my life at this point. It feel like the most important thing. Ive read the Gateless Gatecrashers and worked through all of the quotes on the LU app. Ive got it in terms of the principles, am gradually getting a weakened sense of self, though this comes and goes, so I assume there is an internal battle going on in there. Sometimes I get near glimpses but still don’t see through. I wonder if I need someone to help push me / hold my hand to lead me through the ‘gate’.
My 9 rating below is based on not knowing what 10 will feel like when i'm there - I think there's still some anxiety - I will re-read the fear section of the LU app.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

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StaffordJR
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:42 am


LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand the focus of LU is explicitly for this purpose. I understand the concept that what we consider our 'selves', our controlling, directing, continuous-perceived identity is an illusion. LU helps people with a background understanding of this to directly see through the illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
To see the reality / the 'truth’ of the world and get a correct perspective of 'my' experience within that. With regard to LU specifically, I believe that being helped by someone who already knows the terrain, who can challenge and me help get through blocks and avoidances, is likely to be more direct and effective in seeing through the illusion than trying myself with my inherent ‘blind spots’.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect my difficulties in seeing to be understood better than I do, and to be pointed, redirected, challenged when necessary, to increase my focus and help me see and experience more clearly. I guess I would also expect to be supported if necessary, relating to an anxiety about the potential emotional consequences (though I do consider myself emotionally robust). Ive read all the background LU documentation regarding my honesty, avoiding other teachings and am happy to adhere to those. I expect one difficulty for me will be in dropping my analytical mind / approach, though I’m open to doing it if I can be helped find a way!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Ive had a lifelong pre-occupation with self-consciousness, though I cant decide if that has been a hindrance or an advantage. I’ve meditated and been interested in Buddhism on and off for decades, latterly joining Triratna Mitra training but deciding not to commit to year two by becoming a Mitra. Generally I found practitioners in Triratna open and good people but I felt I couldnt adhere to its leader's teaching and example. It didn’t feel right / lack of personal integrity, as though I was signing up to someone else’s belief set, including the ‘magic’ element of ritual. Having said the latter, I was really drawn to the symbolism of the dakini, dancing in open space, with freedom from fear after burning through attachments. That idea still resonates for me, hence the thread suggestion (which feel free to change if you think that carried too much baggage).
Ive had a couple of experiences on retreat which I think are relevant – one when I briefly ‘saw’ / ‘realised’ the illusion of self and one when I was walking in flow. But both were after intense concentration practice. In the first I had a mental image of a chinese ceremonial dragon that thought it was alive without seeing the people underneath, and also an orchestral piece of music that thought it was alive without seeing the players. The walking in ‘flow’ was after coming out from meditation in which I was looking at the interface between inner experience and external stimuli (sound). I found myself walking in the country with everything ‘unfolding’ as I walked.
I’m semi-retired (57), having spent a professional life in healthcare, and this (seeing reality) is what I want to do with my life at this point. It feel like the most important thing. Ive read the Gateless Gatecrashers and worked through all of the quotes on the LU app. Ive got it in terms of the principles, am gradually getting a weakened sense of self, though this comes and goes, so I assume there is an internal battle going on in there. Sometimes I get near glimpses but still don’t see through. I wonder if I need someone to help push me / hold my hand to lead me through the ‘gate’.
My 9 rating below is based on not knowing what 10 will feel like when i'm there - I think there's still some anxiety - I will re-read the fear section of the LU app.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9
Hi Dear Dakini seeker my name is Stafford & would Love to be Your Guide if You are still interested !?! Is Dakini Seeker what You prefer to be called ???
We can start Right where You are at This Moment !!! I'm Real Direct Because Direct Experience is The Only way in Seeing This, However I do understand Your anxiety about an Emotional consequences, i can relate & Appreciate & share the Other side of That anxiety !!! ok if You choose me as your Guide We can start anytime !!!
Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImage


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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:30 pm

Hi Stafford. Thank you for taking me on. How very exciting! I didnt know if I'd be waiting a day or 2 months.
My name is Andy, just not Jones or Dakini! (You'll have to excuse my use of apostrophes -not sure Ive figured out the emoticons yet)

I am madly cramming work in before leaving for holiday on Saturday (flying to Italy), so may not be able to give this my full attention until then. But I am thinking about it plenty. I even woke up twice last night as a thought in my dream referred to I! I (not sure how to use that word here) havent tried to think through the implications of that yet.
I dont want your generosity to be misused, so depending on how you feel we can start now or wait until Saturday when I can give it greater attention.
What do you think? I'm easy either way.

Andy

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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:31 pm

p.s. I like the idea of you signing off by sending laughter electronically!

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StaffordJR
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:14 am


Hi Stafford. Thank you for taking me on. How very exciting! I didnt know if I'd be waiting a day or 2 months.
My name is Andy, just not Jones or Dakini! (You'll have to excuse my use of apostrophes -not sure Ive figured out the emoticons yet)

I am madly cramming work in before leaving for holiday on Saturday (flying to Italy), so may not be able to give this my full attention until then. But I am thinking about it plenty. I even woke up twice last night as a thought in my dream referred to I! I (not sure how to use that word here) havent tried to think through the implications of that yet.
I dont want your generosity to be misused, so depending on how you feel we can start now or wait until Saturday when I can give it greater attention.
What do you think? I'm easy either way.

Andy
Hi Andy Nice Too meet You & Apologies there is no such thing as my Time Lol &
Since You're so Busy too let's go a head & start Saturday & No Worries my Friend Beside Who's Controlling Anything Lol
With That Being said Let's Start with Control if You Like ?!? W
While You are Busy, Lightly Notice What Control There is on Anything & Everything & We'll Look into This on Saturday !?!
Thank You for Allowing me on Your Journey & Very much Appreciate Your Kindness, I Love including Laughter it Lightens Everything Up & Brings Right into The Heart
;~} =_= {~; ...! ¡ !
Talk soon my Friend in This Illusion & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Thank you. I will pick up Saturday and in the meantime will see if there is control anything!

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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:26 am

[While You are Busy, Lightly Notice What Control There is on Anything & Everything & We'll Look into This on Saturday !?!]

Hi Stafford. So, mad work done.
Control:
Clearly there are natural laws that just do / be, to inanimate objects.
Who knows what’s in the minds of cats and cows.
So I look at my own. I feel some where in a mid zone with this. I’ve been driving a lot. I can watch myself driving (I realize I’m going to have to attend to this use of ‘I’- do LU have any suggestions to denote when we are talking of this mind/body‘i’ or the Self-illusion ‘I’?) and can watch myself brushing my teeth, walking, eating. I breathe, I cough. There are physical reflexes, there are well practiced motor skills that just do themselves without an ‘I’ needing to manage them. Those bits are easy.
I was awake the other night looking at Self stuff and had a mental image of self as a ‘dust devil’ / mini whirlwind; spinning round on itself, self-absorbed, self contained, but wandering round without external purpose. But there was also an internal dialogue, with ‘Me’ saying “well if I don’t exist, how can I do this then?”, with my eyes moving from side to side. Did ‘I’ control my eyes or that dialogue? No, but it felt like a dialogue between big ‘I’ illusion with small ‘i’ observer-illusion. I think that’s what I mean by mid-zone, partial insight. I feel like I’m watching me but both are illusions.
I’ve also been watching my eye movements because when I’m most conscious of ‘I’ there is a muscular tension behind the eyes of Me needing to control my eyes. It’s probably where I most acutely feel the sense of I when under threat. Not sure if it’s the eyes trying to focus inside my head to control what’s happening there, or being super alert for danger so trying to focus / concentrate.
Anyway thought I’d post to get us going.
Off to the airport soon!

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StaffordJR
Posts: 332
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:50 pm


[While You are Busy, Lightly Notice What Control There is on Anything & Everything & We'll Look into This on Saturday !?!]

Hi Stafford. So, mad work done.
Control:
Clearly there are natural laws that just do / be, to inanimate objects.
Who knows what’s in the minds of cats and cows.
So I look at my own. I feel some where in a mid zone with this. I’ve been driving a lot. I can watch myself driving (I realize I’m going to have to attend to this use of ‘I’- do LU have any suggestions to denote when we are talking of this mind/body‘i’ or the Self-illusion ‘I’?) and can watch myself brushing my teeth, walking, eating. I breathe, I cough. There are physical reflexes, there are well practiced motor skills that just do themselves without an ‘I’ needing to manage them. Those bits are easy.
I was awake the other night looking at Self stuff and had a mental image of self as a ‘dust devil’ / mini whirlwind; spinning round on itself, self-absorbed, self contained, but wandering round without external purpose. But there was also an internal dialogue, with ‘Me’ saying “well if I don’t exist, how can I do this then?”, with my eyes moving from side to side. Did ‘I’ control my eyes or that dialogue? No, but it felt like a dialogue between big ‘I’ illusion with small ‘i’ observer-illusion. I think that’s what I mean by mid-zone, partial insight. I feel like I’m watching me but both are illusions.
I’ve also been watching my eye movements because when I’m most conscious of ‘I’ there is a muscular tension behind the eyes of Me needing to control my eyes. It’s probably where I most acutely feel the sense of I when under threat. Not sure if it’s the eyes trying to focus inside my head to control what’s happening there, or being super alert for danger so trying to focus / concentrate.
Anyway thought I’d post to get us going.
Off to the airport soon!
Hi Andy Glad You're done with Your Work, seems Never Ending at Times Right ¡ ? ¡ Lol Glad You're on Vacation Image
So Ok so i think LU will Be good with small i for mind body & big I for self Illusion !!!
Wonderful work my Friend however Let's See Through Intellectual Thoughts ideas & concepts ?!?
So when Noticing control let's Look at i & Thinking & When is thinking Separate from i ? Then what difference would there Be between i Body Mind & I Self Illusion ???
Now Looking into Words & Concepts Theories !?! Notice when talking (about) Something ? ¿ ? When if Ever is IT the Thing We're talking (About) !?! And When if Ever IS a Word The Thing We're talking (About) & if IT'S Always About Something What could Be a Theory ??? Lastly if a Seed turns into a Tree Then can Be a House or Paper & Before That was Nothing First, Then What IS IT Really !!! /???
Ok Stopping Here & I so Hope This is Clear, if not We can Clarify Things & Thanks so much for Your Kindness & Patients !?!

Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImage


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StaffordJR
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 pm


[While You are Busy, Lightly Notice What Control There is on Anything & Everything & We'll Look into This on Saturday !?!]

Hi Stafford. So, mad work done.
Control:
Clearly there are natural laws that just do / be, to inanimate objects.
Who knows what’s in the minds of cats and cows.
So I look at my own. I feel some where in a mid zone with this. I’ve been driving a lot. I can watch myself driving (I realize I’m going to have to attend to this use of ‘I’- do LU have any suggestions to denote when we are talking of this mind/body‘i’ or the Self-illusion ‘I’?) and can watch myself brushing my teeth, walking, eating. I breathe, I cough. There are physical reflexes, there are well practiced motor skills that just do themselves without an ‘I’ needing to manage them. Those bits are easy.
I was awake the other night looking at Self stuff and had a mental image of self as a ‘dust devil’ / mini whirlwind; spinning round on itself, self-absorbed, self contained, but wandering round without external purpose. But there was also an internal dialogue, with ‘Me’ saying “well if I don’t exist, how can I do this then?”, with my eyes moving from side to side. Did ‘I’ control my eyes or that dialogue? No, but it felt like a dialogue between big ‘I’ illusion with small ‘i’ observer-illusion. I think that’s what I mean by mid-zone, partial insight. I feel like I’m watching me but both are illusions.
I’ve also been watching my eye movements because when I’m most conscious of ‘I’ there is a muscular tension behind the eyes of Me needing to control my eyes. It’s probably where I most acutely feel the sense of I when under threat. Not sure if it’s the eyes trying to focus inside my head to control what’s happening there, or being super alert for danger so trying to focus / concentrate.
Anyway thought I’d post to get us going.
Off to the airport soon!
Hi Andy Glad You're done with Your Work, seems Never Ending at Times Right ¡ ? ¡ Lol Glad You're on Vacation Image
So Ok so i think LU will Be good with small i for mind body & big I for self Illusion !!!
Wonderful work my Friend however Let's See Through Intellectual Thoughts ideas & concepts ?!?
So when Noticing control let's Look at i & Thinking & When is thinking Separate from i ? Then what difference would there Be between i Body Mind & I Self Illusion ???
Now Looking into Words & Concepts Theories !?! Notice when talking (about) Something ? ¿ ? When if Ever is IT the Thing We're talking (About) !?! And When if Ever IS a Word The Thing We're talking (About) & if IT'S Always About Something What could Be a Theory ??? Lastly if a Seed turns into a Tree Then can Be a House or Paper & Before That was Nothing First, Then What IS IT Really !!! /???
Ok Stopping Here & I so Hope This is Clear, if not We can Clarify Things & Thanks so much for Your Kindness & Patients !?!

Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImage


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I Loved The dust devil / mini whirlwind idea of the Self & Apologies I'm at a Point of None Verbal communication with This IT'S, Wow
Unexplainable however when Looking at Our senses Sight Like You were saying, Sound Touch & Breathing IT'S All Happening on it's Own Accord as You mentioned !?!
However When talk about it's Always Past & Future. The Now can't Be Held onto or Explained IT'S Always Changing !!! Ok Hope Your flight was Good Talk soon my Friend in This Illusion & Sending much Love

StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:28 pm

“So when Noticing control let's Look at i & Thinking & When is thinking Separate from i ? Then what difference would there Be between i Body Mind & I Self Illusion ???”

Ok I get that, at least intellectually. The mind body is making the observer / thinking i and the Self I. Last night I woke up with the question ‘so is none of this thinking me?’. No answer but the implication was that there was no/one to answer the question. Self illusion I is just another thought of mind body I. Today there seems to have been a more unified, less intense inward-seeking, internal questioning dialogue. But how do I see and experience that?
I trust this process and feel as though I am sliding down a slope so trust I will get there. But I tend to be rational / analytical, so how to put that down? I see your next question starts to address that.

“Wonderful work my Friend however Let's See Through Intellectual Thoughts ideas & concepts ?!? Now Looking into Words & Concepts Theories !?! Notice when talking (about) Something ? ¿ ? When if Ever is IT the Thing We're talking (About) !?! And When if Ever IS a Word The Thing We're talking (About) & if IT'S Always About Something What could Be a Theory ???“

I hope I’m following your train of thinking, and answering the dilemma you’re posing, but I’m not sure what you’re referring to as IT or THE THING. I’m a scientist so for me a theory is just a model. A useful way of explaining things, getting closer to the truth, rather than the reality itself. It can always be dropped / modified with new information. When I come to internal labels, such as i, I, observer, Self, none of them are adequate. They are labels rather than the experience.
I’ve read amongst the LU reading that thoughts are real but the content isn’t necessarily. So is it that thinking is like seeing, hearing; the content may be real or may be an illusion (like a misinterpreted auditory / visual stimuli can be even though the hearing /seeing is real)? So Self is like a mirage in visual terms? I realise this is more theorizing, but I think it helps me to come close to the truth, so that the focus shift to Seeing the truth is less.


“Lastly if a Seed turns into a Tree Then can Be a House or Paper & Before That was Nothing First, Then What IS IT Really !!! /???“

Again I get this on a theoretical level. Everything is impermanent, everything is part of a flow. A seed is temporarily this, before it was formed by the tree from nutrients, and it will transition into a tree itself with the addition of more elements, before it becomes the roof of a house and later firewood, then ash returned to the earth. A seed is one part of a never ending journey / transformation. So this mind body, which produces thought with unreliable content and the dust-devil Self, interacts with the earth’s elements and will one day return the elements to the earth.
The thing that feels missing from this is the sense of aliveness. Is this awareness, that is the ocean that rises within waves of different form (us included)?
If so, there is a theory that is complete, but still not The Truth seen.
“I Loved The dust devil / mini whirlwind idea of the Self & Apologies I'm at a Point of None Verbal communication with This IT'S, Wow“

I don’t understand this, I’m afraid .Again the IT’S, but understand that is your experience and maybe I will see it sometime.


“Unexplainable however when Looking at Our senses Sight Like You were saying, Sound Touch & Breathing IT'S All Happening on it's Own Accord as You mentioned !?!
However When talk about it's Always Past & Future. The Now can't Be Held onto or Explained IT'S Always Changing !!!“

I have the luxury of being by a pool in the sun and warmth. Gently leaning into experiencing and trying not to think too much. Maybe watching it all. Think I’ll stay in this zone a bit, seeing it happening.

One practical question though, which I suspect I will answer. I said unwise words to someone, which is dwelling uneasily with me. I want to remedy that. So do I just go along with remedying it, accepting that it is just mind body ‘i’ that is making this movement, not Self I?

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StaffordJR
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:37 am

(""""One practical question though, which I suspect I will answer. I said unwise words to someone, which is dwelling uneasily with me. I want to remedy that. So do I just go along with remedying it, accepting that it is just mind body ‘i’ that is making this movement, not Self I""'''")

Hi my Dear Andy, Apologies I've Been wanting to Reply All Day However Life had it's own Plans & Been Dealing with chronic pain tried Cleaning The House Riding Bike any & All Activity & No Results Lol
Lucky i mind body gets All the pain & I Self Illusion gets too imagine what it all is, and like the screen back ground that all these words are typed on that's the Real US !!! /???
So I noticed the way I write may add confusion, so changing it up a little !?!
Taking your " quote " above Yes go Along with the remedy & Please Know You never had a choice & Your always going to do whatever is next, wise words or not so wise words. Never really our choices & here is why !!!
First your Direct Experience did you have anything too do with your birth ¿?¿ What choice did you have on your gender parents grandparents & their genetics ?¿?
So Actually When Really really Looked at What Responsibility are yours for who & what you are & What's Actually Yours ?!? Do you actually have a way to prevent passing away ?!? Not trying to be Impersonal but what is personal especially when this isn't our permanent destination besides personal personality originated from Persona which is a Greek word for personality which means mask & what's masked up !!! /???
I didn't forget about your other threads, I see your intellectually getting this however this isn't a teaching & all I can do is point too You're Direct Experience without Words Like Seeing & Hearing a Beautiful Thunderstorm & or The Sunset on a Beach You can Tell me Everything about it Yet Not The Experience
Ok Andy my Friend time for me to lay down . Hope this is clear if not all good we look at it in a different angle then !?!
Sending much Love & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford


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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:18 am

I’m sorry about your back. Pain is not nice to deal with.

I loved your quote “Please Know You never had a choice & Your always going to do whatever is next, wise words or not so wise words. Never really our choices & here is why !!!“. It is freeing. It also fits with a philosopher I got stuck with once. Spinoza.
Anyway i’m moving away from theorizing, spending more time looking. i had a thought just now “I want to be free” and it was interesting to reflect that that was just a thought.
Whenever i get the I sensation i’m trying to equate it with my unicorn. i try and feel / note the similarity between these two ideas. my uneasy Self-conscious feeling comes usually with an abdominal queasy sensation or an eye movement muscle tension. So i’m trying to link that to the Unicorn’s horn, and also to shift it to a sensation I get in concentration meditation in the third eye/ forehead area because when I’m in this state it often feels as though my vision is disengaged. Is it helpful to use such techniques? It feels though it might help weaken the hold the I illusion has. But I don’t want to do it if it is avoiding Seeing clearly.

i’m also looking from your ‘control’ perspective. Maybe a thinning sense of control is coming. But i don’t want Me to be deceiving myself, if you know what i mean.

i’m spending more time just experiencing the now, as best i can. There probably is a bit more spaciousness. When looking with eyes closed i note that the dark emptiness arises that i have previously experienced in what i think is my version of 3rd-4th jhana. Not sure why that is, maybe related to my shift of eye tension to forehead sensation. Anyway, it feels more empty of thought and more spacious which i guess must be in the right direction.

I have an unease that ‘I’ is in this looking / searching, a grasping sense trying to control my liberation, so trying to note that ‘I’ feeling and fold it back in.

i hope your pain improves. my back is sometimes painful and it is a dilemma whether to rest it or exercise.

Go well.
With love
Andy

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StaffordJR
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Dakini seeker

Postby StaffordJR » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:58 am


I’m sorry about your back. Pain is not nice to deal with.

I loved your quote “Please Know You never had a choice & Your always going to do whatever is next, wise words or not so wise words. Never really our choices & here is why !!!“. It is freeing. It also fits with a philosopher I got stuck with once. Spinoza.
Anyway i’m moving away from theorizing, spending more time looking. i had a thought just now “I want to be free” and it was interesting to reflect that that was just a thought.
Whenever i get the I sensation i’m trying to equate it with my unicorn. i try and feel / note the similarity between these two ideas. my uneasy Self-conscious feeling comes usually with an abdominal queasy sensation or an eye movement muscle tension. So i’m trying to link that to the Unicorn’s horn, and also to shift it to a sensation I get in concentration meditation in the third eye/ forehead area because when I’m in this state it often feels as though my vision is disengaged. Is it helpful to use such techniques? It feels though it might help weaken the hold the I illusion has. But I don’t want to do it if it is avoiding Seeing clearly.

i’m also looking from your ‘control’ perspective. Maybe a thinning sense of control is coming. But i don’t want Me to be deceiving myself, if you know what i mean.

i’m spending more time just experiencing the now, as best i can. There probably is a bit more spaciousness. When looking with eyes closed i note that the dark emptiness arises that i have previously experienced in what i think is my version of 3rd-4th jhana. Not sure why that is, maybe related to my shift of eye tension to forehead sensation. Anyway, it feels more empty of thought and more spacious which i guess must be in the right direction.

I have an unease that ‘I’ is in this looking / searching, a grasping sense trying to control my liberation, so trying to note that ‘I’ feeling and fold it back in.

i hope your pain improves. my back is sometimes painful and it is a dilemma whether to rest it or exercise.

Go well.
With love
Andy
Hi Andy my Dear Friend Thank You for Your Kindness & Patients & Yes totally relate about the Dilemma & actually point at no one choosing in a subtle way !?!

("""""""Anyway i’m moving away from theorizing, spending more time looking. i had a thought just now “I want to be free” and it was interesting to reflect that that was just a thought.
Whenever i get the I sensation i’m trying to equate it with my unicorn. i try and feel / note the similarity between these two ideas. my uneasy Self-conscious feeling comes usually with an abdominal queasy sensation or an eye movement muscle tension. So i’m trying to link that to the Unicorn’s horn, and also to shift it to a sensation I get in concentration meditation in the third eye/ forehead area because when I’m in this state it often feels as though my vision is disengaged. Is it helpful to use such techniques? It feels though it might help weaken the hold the I illusion has. But I don’t want to do it if it is avoiding Seeing clearly.""""")
Ok my Friend this isn't Wrong or Right, however it is avoiding the Point !!!
Seeing Clearly IS All Clear, Meaning No Thing There, Not Even a Someone with the Knowledge of Seeing....!!!! Knowledge is Some Thing Known which Clouds Seeing Clearly !!! Drop Everything, Your Knowledge Body Mind Anything & Everything !?! / ?!?
Now What's Left To Do & Anything Left Too find & Where could You Go Too find it & What would Be The Point ;~} =_= {~;

I'm stopping Here in Hopes You're Seeing This Beautiful Undescribable Living Void for Lack For Real of Words ( Just add L & Words are Worlds ) See Clearly without Words, Only Word Creat Worlds........ !!! /???

Thank You so Very much for Your Patience
& Kindness Always Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImage

PS Love Your Passion Honesty & Hard Work, just remember & it's not something You get Right or Wrong & No Way To get T.here ( To Here ) All Ready Here Luv Ya & talk soon !!! /¿¿¿



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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:35 am

‘“””Ok my Friend this isn't Wrong or Right, however it is avoiding the Point !!!
Seeing Clearly IS All Clear, Meaning No Thing There, Not Even a Someone with the Knowledge of Seeing....!!!! Knowledge is Some Thing Known which Clouds Seeing Clearly !!! Drop Everything, Your Knowledge Body Mind Anything & Everything !?! / ?!?“””””

“”””just remember & it's not something You get Right or Wrong & No Way To get T.here ( To Here ) All Ready Here”””

These just make me laugh with the impossibility of making progress. It’s like going on a journey with an invisible map and a destination that’s only visible when you arrive!
I realise “I”’m not going to work it out but ‘i’ has assumed that awareness would have the knowledge that it was aware. And is it not helpful to calm the mind to have less distraction, to allow awareness a better chance of just seeing? Unless its all just a Koan to beat your head against until you give up and it’s only then you see?!
Laughing, but carrying on looking!

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Andyjones
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Re: Dakini seeker

Postby Andyjones » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:42 am

So, little steps with night time thought watching.
Thinking happens.
Thinking is not in control of itself. I’m not sure if it’s in control of anything, but I can think about how I am going to move and that influences the movement, so there must be an interaction. It’s not just being aware of what I’ve just done. Something creates the brain messages to walk, and that is thinking, even if not fully conscious.
The content of thinking is a guess, an approximation, trying to build a theory or a representation, or sometimes a story / fantasy, that is more or less accurate and more or less useful. So it might usefully think up the laws of physics, or it might unhelpfully create an anxiety provoking fiction about how other people think of me. I is a story, one that might usefully produce aspiration, but one that causes anxiety for me about not being in control, about not being able to be something I am not. If that makes sense?

So this is my tentative / weak seeing this morning.


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