Ready!

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:49 pm

So there are changes and all is the same, lol.
Sum up what did change for the records ;-).
The biggest change is that I used to have this terrible feeling that 'I was wasting my life', and it manifested as pressure to make every day 'worthwhile', planning to achieve this, resisting my chronic illness because it was stopping me living a 'full life'... comparing my quiet days with other people and so on. A lot of this pressure has dropped away and I can enjoy moments more. Sure I'm still resisting pain when it's very strong and uncomfortable like today, and sometimes guilt comes up when I have supposedly 'wasted my time' or not done something 'i' planned to do, but less so - the guilt in particular is let go of almost immediately when it arises, since I know there was no one in control and what happened, happened.
There are fewer internal arguments - by which I mean i don't agonise much over decisions, what to do etc. as I know that it's all just a story and again, what will happen, will happen. I feel somewhat easier in my being.
New bits of insight come in different situations.
There are still lots of expectations about how things 'should' be after gating, but I realise that these are stories too - things are as they are and there is no 'I' here to change things.
Of course, some of the time I'm sucked into story but often if it gets heated or tense I usually realise a little while after and can let go of the guilt around it.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:41 pm

Beautiful, you slip into the just happening.

Do you see that guilt is a habitual response?
Most of us are trained to feel guilty about this or that - yawn - say bye bye to it.
I feel somewhat easier in my being.
New bits of insight come in different situations.
Very beautiful.
Once the stone is rolling new insights come on their own, there is not much looking needed anymore.
There are still lots of expectations about how things 'should' be after gating....
You know that gating is not the same than Awakening or Enlightenment?
Just asking....

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
Any doubts? If yes, which ones?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:40 pm

You know that gating is not the same than Awakening or Enlightenment?
Just asking....
Yup. More like a first step. I think I want to 'keep going' after the first step though, if you know what I mean. Not in a desperate sort of way, just in an exploring way. There is some 'wanting' of repeat experiences, longer experiences etc. but I'm more relaxed about 'I want' thoughts.
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Can't find any sort of 'me' 'in here'. Every time one thinks one finds a self, closer examination confirms that it's just a thought or idea. Even the sense of 'self' one feels is simply familiarity with particular repeating sensations (this body), thoughts, feelings labelled as 'me'. There is nothing personal here, just experiencing. Thought habits rush in to claim and own everything, and sometimes one falls for them for a time.
Was there ever?
No, not outside of thoughts. The grand 'me' was never there. Just a story about owning, controlling, being a certain way and so on. And a big story linking together all the happenings into a coherent 'my life'.
Any doubts? If yes, which ones?
I don't doubt that there is no thing that can be called I or me or person, but still frequently fall into believing the thoughts in everyday life. I guess over time they will be seen through more and more quickly and frequently, so looking forward to 'growing' into this more.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:16 pm

Wonderful.
There is some 'wanting' of repeat experiences, longer experiences etc. but I'm more relaxed about 'I want' thoughts.
Aren't these wishes simply happening, habitually?
I don't doubt that there is no thing that can be called I or me or person, but still frequently fall into believing the thoughts in everyday life.
Falling into and out of it - the famous jo-jo-ing.

And more questions for checking:
- Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?
and
- How does it feel to see this?
-What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Some of it, the what changed you already answered earlier, so now only if you discovered anything else.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:50 pm

Hi Jadzia,

Ok, so I will answer a bit at a time over the coming days, so that I have time to reflect and write properly...
Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience.
The illusion of separate self, the self that we think we are / thought we were is an incredibly elaborate, compelling thought creation, an assumption on which more and more story is built, layers upon layers of it. At the heart is a belief (recurring, affirming thought on which other thoughts are based). A belief that there is some 'thing' called a 'me' 'inside' this body/head/heart (choose one!) that is tangible. And that this tangible 'I' can run a great play called 'my life', making all the decisions, doing all the actions and so on. Language feeds this belief and supports the assumption making it feel even more solid. This central 'I' comes with a lot of supposed responsibilities and abilities - to 'be' a certain way, to do certain things, to feel certain things. And then the thought-space becomes an angst-ridden story in which one imagines 'me' trying to do/be all these things.
The belief is supported by other assumptions, such as 'this is my body and my stuff and my mind' (claiming ownership) , 'I feel like me' (familiarity of sensations, thoughts, feelings). But all of them are a thought or idea about something - some are ideas about experienced sensation, and others are ideas about other ideas! At the end of the day, the supposed 'self' is thoughts all the way through.

It shows up in experience in loads of ways, and these will take time to change as the thoughts are so conditioned/habitual. It claims everything - praise, blame, responsibility, choices, ownership. For example - 'I did loads of work today, I'm awesome!' (praise) and 'I didn't get much done today, I'm lazy' (blame). And in neither case did one have any control - stuff happened or didn't. It also shows up in feeling one is lacking because thoughts are constantly comparing this self-character to other characters - how 'I' look, behave, act. Could keep going about where/how it shows up in experience because it permeates everything...

More in the coming days, on your other questions...
Ygirl.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:06 pm

Yeah!!!!!
Can't wait to read more. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:36 pm

Wow - had terrible vertigo yesterday, so stayed away from screens. Back now...

Feels like a bit of a roller-coaster this week, with the yo-yo effect. On Wednesday evening I had a wobble and wasn't sure about anything. Lot's of thought telling me I hadn't got this at all.

Then other times feeling calm about everything. Then a bit of insight yesterday about my chronic illness - this was interesting and almost impossible to describe in words, but I'll have a go. I have often related to symptoms as if there is this underlying, well 'me' - the me that should have been; I'm not talking about discursive thoughts along these lines, but a sort of subtle pervading visualisation/feeling of how things are. I saw that this was happening yesterday and that there aren't these separate parts - not the 'me' as 'I' should be 'underneath' the symptoms, and that the sensations are as much/valid a part of what is as anything else. I almost felt a tiny bit of compassion/love for the sensations which are part of the lifing here. Which sounds kind of crazy.
How does it feel to see this?
See above! LoL! And previous posts. When reflecting on this it is freeing, and things are lighter, and 'I' don't take 'myself' so seriously. Most of what happens is just ok. I feel like I get less stressed - maybe there are moments of stress but they don't persist. It's beginning to be easier to take a gentler perspective with respect to others too. It's a bit like being unplugged from the Matrix (you know, the movie; have you seen it?). Sometimes you are completely unplugged and everything is 100% clear. Other times you are plugged in but know you are. And other times you are plugged in and get totally lost in the story, and believe it to be reality for a while. Interestingly, while seeing the interconnectedness of things, one also feels a little more distanced from other people, since they seem to be fully plugged in to the Matrix. Is this normal? I guess because there is no-one among friends, family, acquaintances that is interested in this. That's part of the reason why you and the other guides are so, so valuable.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:39 pm

I saw that this was happening yesterday and that there aren't these separate parts - not the 'me' as 'I' should be 'underneath' the symptoms, and that the sensations are as much/valid a part of what is as anything else. I almost felt a tiny bit of compassion/love for the sensations which are part of the lifing here. Which sounds kind of crazy.
Love eeeeeet! And this is so not crazy.
Now have a look are sensation of pain, the might be underlying me, the thinking about it- is anything separate from what is or are all simply an expression of what is/Life or whatever you want to call it?

Yip watched Matrix and your picture works very well.
Now have a look is there any difference between beeing unplucked, plucking in with knowing, plucking in without or are all three just simply expressions of what is? Same value? Nothing better than the other, just being?

Two more questions and I hope the vertigo stays away since I am looking forward to the answers. :-)
And yes, it is strange when no one around you shares this process and the new overview. But hey there is a thread called Further Investigations and there is a facebook group to share, you won't be alone.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:07 pm

Now have a look are sensation of pain, the might be underlying me, the thinking about it- is anything separate from what is or are all simply an expression of what is/Life or whatever you want to call it?
All is part of lifing. Sometimes this is clear, other times not.
Yip watched Matrix and your picture works very well.
Now have a look is there any difference between beeing unplucked, plucking in with knowing, plucking in without or are all three just simply expressions of what is? Same value? Nothing better than the other, just being?
All three are just what is. However, still some clinging to one over the other is happening. And if you were plugged in all the time you wouldn't ever have any perspective.
But hey there is a thread called Further Investigations and there is a facebook group to share, you won't be alone.
Looking forward to it :-)
Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Decision, intention, free will choice and control are all just ideas and thoughts. I often used to feel, looking back on pivotal moments in my life, that I didn't choose any of it - it just happened. And now I understand this. As with everything thoughts are coming before and after happenings and claiming ownership. But no 'thing' makes things happen. I don't choose option A or option B - if option A happens, option B never existed, so all that is there is what is happening. The I thoughts around intention and choice can be quite strong and compelling, but there's no evidence that they are connected to the actual happenings. Often, supposed 'intention' doesn't lead to action at all - I've seen this wrapped up with the I thought quite a lot - there's an intention which one believe is 'mine', and then when the action fails to happen the I thought claims the blame and guilt arises. Seeing that there isn't really a chooser makes one much calmer and the need to make 'the right choices' all the time in every little thing is no longer relevant.
Even little 'choices' aren't really choices - there's lots of thoughts before the choice - for example, shall I go for a walk now or later, hmm the weather might be better later etc. etc. But at some point the action just happens.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:15 pm

However, still some clinging to one over the other is happening.
Clinging over the other is quite a strong picture. This sounds a lot like an opinion (habitual judgement), this clinging. :-) Can you see it?
Nothing wrong with that, likes and dislikes are still there.

What about responsibility? Is the I/self responsible for something, anything, everything?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 pm

Clinging over the other is quite a strong picture. This sounds a lot like an opinion (habitual judgement), this clinging. :-) Can you see it?
Absolutely - I get that in the story the character wants this or that. And that it is totally habitual. It just happens so no point thinking clinging shouldn't be happening.
What about responsibility? Is the I/self responsible for something, anything, everything?
Nothing at all. No I to be responsible. And no other 'I's to be responsible to. Promises and commitments might get made to others - that happens. And whether they are fulfilled or not happens or not according to the programming. A promise/commitment is just an idea, although a shared idea. Action happens or not.
And in the wider sense of is there an 'I' responsible for the doing of anything, then no. A story can't do something. There are lots of stories about 'me doing this' or 'me doing that'. But there's the story, and there's the happenings. Both are arising/happening. One isn't making the other arise/happen...

Having a lovely lazy weekend. Hope you've had a good weekend too :-)

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:10 pm

Happy lovely lazy weekend here, too. :-)
And whether they are fulfilled or not happens or not according to the programming.
How did you get to "programming"? Do you mean behavioural or thought patterns or a general programming of what happens?

Your task now:
Read the whole page 14.
Answer one question.

Have you seen without doubt that there is no self/I with any substance or as entity with any sort of power?

A simple no or yes would suffice. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:27 pm

How did you get to "programming"? Do you mean behavioural or thought patterns or a general programming of what happens?
I think I briefly fell into thinking the programming of this particular bit of life, with tendencies, but it's not separate from all that is happening, so, yes, just general programming of lifing/what happens.
Your task now:
Read the whole page 14.
Answer one question.
Have you seen without doubt that there is no self/I with any substance or as entity with any sort of power?
A simple no or yes would suffice. :-)
Yes. The process of answering these questions on this page made a difference too - taking stock and writing out the answers. Have been super-calm in the last few days :-) A little spike of stress at a work thing today - but immediately saw it was surrounding/protecting a story about a self - I'm sure it'll spike again, but maybe less and less each time...

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:35 pm

Beautiful.
I'm sure it'll spike again, but maybe less and less each time...
Mostly yes. But it is a bit depending on what might show, but even if you fall for a story and feel like in a whirlwind a day or longer, you know how to look and earlier or later that what wanted to be seen has been seen.

I will show this thread to other guides now to see if we have overlooked something and they might ask some good questions, ok?

Love,
Jadzia

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:49 am

One guide has a question for you :-) :

You wrote "but still frequently fall into believing the thoughts in everyday life."
What is it exactly that sometimes fall into believing thoughts?
Is there a believer separate from the thoughts believed?

Love,
Jadzia


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