Looking to lose the me

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Fri May 15, 2020 6:01 am

Hi Cole,

Could you please write a bit about how does the me show up in your everyday life?
What is the feeling of ‘being me'?

And what is real and what is not? What is the difference between reality and imagination?


Please reply what feels true for you.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 16, 2020 1:46 am

Helllllllllo,
Could you please write a bit about how does the me show up in your everyday life?
In everyday day life right now with the the semi lockdown that means
"I" wakeup commitments like school
"I" have to be present to speak and respond
"i" I have homework and other tasks to do
"I" have thoughts about tasks homework school
"I" have wants or needs that come up as thoughts

What is the feeling of ‘being me'?
I can't feel a me
And what is real and what is not? What is the difference between reality and imagination?
Wow that one really got me ;)
I wanted to tell you how I could feel a feeling by a bunch of thoughts.

Reality is something that can be Experianced touched felt seen heard.
Imagination is a story/thought. -That cannot be Experianced
I cannot Experiance a feeling of me.
Inversely Where I can create a story and use my imagination to tell you about a me..a collection of past beliefs or thoughts that I've labelled to me. That I have to think of to tell you.


Cheers .

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am

Hi Cole,

Let’s explore what actually is. What is actually happening without thoughts and imagination.

Please be careful not to rush through the questions, and just quickly agree or disagree with them, but actually investigate them deeply.

When a sensation is present, it’s here, it’s real, it’s happening, right?
When there is a sound, then it’s real and it’s happening, isn’t?
And what about tastes and smells? When they are happening, they are undeniably there? Would you agree?
And what about colors and shapes? They are happening too, right?


So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.


Is there anything else that you can be sure that it’s real and it’s happening other than experience (color, sound, taste, smell, sensation) here right now, in this very moment?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Tue May 19, 2020 1:51 am

Hi,
Let’s explore what actually is. What is actually happening without thoughts and imagination.
Ok, what actually is
Please be careful not to rush through the questions, and just quickly agree or disagree with them, but actually investigate them deeply.
I've tried to take the time.
When a sensation is present, it’s here, it’s real, it’s happening, right?
yes
When there is a sound, then it’s real and it’s happening, isn’t?
yes
And what about tastes and smells? When they are happening, they are undeniably there? Would you agree?
When they are happening they are definitely there no doubt about it.
And what about colors and shapes? They are happening too, right?
yes
So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.
Experiance IS- meaning there's nothing else but Experiance and all these labels for things
Is there anything else that you can be sure that it’s real and it’s happening other than experience (color, sound, taste, smell, sensation) here right now, in this very moment?
there is nothing else I can be sure of

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Tue May 19, 2020 5:40 am

Hi Cole,
V: So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.
C: Experiance IS- meaning there's nothing else but Experiance and all these labels for things
Let me ask you some clarifying questions.

Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?

When you say ‘meaning…..’ – are you trying to interpret and understand what I say and think it through?

How do you regard this inquiry? As a teaching that provides new information that can be learned? Or how exactly?

What do you do exactly after you reading my questions?

How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed May 20, 2020 8:36 am

Hello,

Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote
describing this seems to be the problem it's happening and that's only be seen through Experiance and there is no experiancer to describe what happened without it being a story about a character.
When you say ‘meaning…..’ – are you trying to interpret and understand what I say and think it through?
it's tricky to use words that are not going to be heard as intellectual understanding. There is Experiance trying to be described. Not intellectual understanding
How do you regard this inquiry? As a teaching that provides new information that can be learned? Or how exactly?
this inquiry is about finding the truth it cannot be stored as a idea or a belief it has to be practiced through Experiance to cut away the lies that are told through stories and ideas so filling it with more ideas wouldn't work. Describing and experiancing these things so they are seen as truth is a challange forsure. When seein things and trying to describe them it easy to use intellectual understanding to describe Experiances

I see
It felt like to me
I understand
I read and udnerstand ( is it experianceally or intellcuatually)

When reading these words I know there Is an experiancing through seeing... but there's no experiancer (I)
What do you do exactly after you reading my questions?
after reading the questions there is this inquiry about the questions or ideas and does it fit into an Experiance (truth) or a thought/story.

How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Wed May 20, 2020 11:18 am

Hi Cole,

Do you read your own comments before submitting it?
Because if you don’t, I would like to do it.

You sparsely use punctuation marks, and your comments leave lots of guessing on my part. Trying to figure out what you wanted to say. Which could be OK in an everyday conversation, but in this inquiry precision counts a lot.

I write my comments and questions based on your answers, but if your answers and not clear, and I have to speculate what you wanted to say, then our investigation can go off.

Please try to use language which describe your experience as precisely as you can. And please read your own comments before posting it, and correct it when it’s needed.

For example, read this quote:
V: How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
C: everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist
When you say ‘IT’ doesn’t exist, what do you refer to by word ‘it’?
Do you see that you are not communicating clearly?


I’m wondering, are you replying from your phone, so you are trying to write quick and short answers?
V: Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?
C: describing this seems to be the problem it's happening and that's only be seen through Experiance and there is no experiancer to describe what happened without it being a story about a character.
It’s not about using or not using first-person pronouns. My question was entirely about something else.

What I was asking, if you actually investigating your immediate raw experience, and your replies come from what you can actually SEE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE
OR
You are just THINKING about the answers, and you are weighing pros and cons based on logical thinking?
I see
It felt like to me
I understand
I read and udnerstand ( is it experianceally or intellcuatually)

When reading these words I know there Is an experiancing through seeing... but there's no experiancer (I)
But my question is the same as before.

You say that you KNOW ‘there is an experiencing through seeing, but there is no experiencer’.
But HOW do you know this?

Do you know this because you’ve heard and read about from others
OR
because you are actually SEEING EXPERIENTIALLY that there is no experiencer?

How did you come up with the reply that there is no experiencer?
Did you searched (literally) for it?
If yes, WHERE did you searched for the experiencer?


I would like to ask you to SEARCH for the experiencer, right now.
Where do you search for it? Where do you look?
It has to be practiced through Experience
What is it exactly that is practicing through experience?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am

Hi there,
Checking in got you're message. It's Been a busy end to the week.
I will have some time to write out a reply TMR.

Thank you
Cheers

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sun May 24, 2020 6:07 am

Hello,
This last week was full of moments that were great to look for a self.

The last message you sent brought up alot of thoughts and feelings in the self. While at the same time My ex-partner wrote me a breakup message that conicoded with some of the messages in this chat the same week. About expressing myself clearly and sharing in my Experiance.This has made me look at my inquiry here even deeper And try and look closer
Some triggers were hit, this feeling of not being understood. Fear, frustartion and anger.

I put these thoughts to the test of Experiance.
Who is the i that feels triggered
Who feels misunderstood.
Who is angry right now.
Are these not thoughts just trying to protect themselves.
Trying to reinforce the me.

But they are just thoughts they can't be proven to be real.
There is no self to feel triggered, misunderstood, or angry, just thoughts...
When thoughts come up I have tried to look for sensations that come with them.
thank you for this and you're time. I definitley have some walls communicating. I appreciate you're patience and understanding.

I meant to ask is English you're first language? I write in slang which I'm seeing is not good for this inquiry and is a great reminder it needs to be better.
I re-read our whole conversation over again. I felt I needed a reminder of honesty, clarity.
To re-experiance the process so far. There has been times where I am unclear of the questions you have asked.





Please try to use language which describe your experience as precisely as you can. And please read your own comments before posting it, and correct it when it’s needed
My Experiance and more clear points gotcha.
For example, read this quote:
V: How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
C: everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist
When you say ‘IT’ doesn’t exist, what do you refer to by word ‘it’?
Do you see that you are not communicating clearly?
I see how I need to put it into my direct Experiance.
Experiance is, and everything else that comes up into Experiance is Experiance, a thought or story about Experiance
V: Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?
What I was asking, if you actually investigating your immediate raw experience, and your replies come from what you can actually SEE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE
OR
You are just THINKING about the answers, and you are weighing pros and cons based on logical thinking?
I investigate raw Experiance with the information we have talked about throughout the days. Beliefs and thinking happens in Experiance.. when thoughts come up with a self, I start a direct investigation most of the time for: "who is this self" there is things happening but are they happening to "me"
But my question is the same as before.
You say that you KNOW ‘there is an experiencing through seeing, but there is no experiencer’.
But HOW do you know this?
My investigation when looking for an I or self, I find nobody
When asking who the experiancer was, nobody replied.
When I asked who is the self/me, there was no reply. Just thoughts that come up to try and answer the question.
But a thought explaining a thought cannot be truth.
That leaves just raw Experiance with no experiancer
Do you know this because you’ve heard and read about from others
OR
because you are actually SEEING EXPERIENTIALLY that there is no experiencer?
I have been trying to test Experiance with other experiments like the coffee and cups we did prior.
For example :
When the finger touches the leg there is sensations... is it the finger or the leg felt. Or is it just raw sensation, that then is labelled as something with thoughts...
How did you come up with the reply that there is no experiencer?
Did you searched (literally) for it?
If yes, WHERE did you searched for the experiencer?
When searching for the experiancer I called out, who are you? And got no response just thoughts.
I tried to point at the self and couldn't see them
I would like to ask you to SEARCH for the experiencer, right now.
Where do you search for it? Where do you look?
When I look for the experiancer I use my fingers to try and point to them. but there is no one there to point at.
I tried to use sight to see an experiancer but I couldn't,
i tried to touch the experiancer and couldn't
What is it exactly that is practicing through experience?
The only thing I can find is Experiance, there is not a self to practice, Experiance just is accompanied with thoughts and story's about it.

Cheers
Cole

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sun May 24, 2020 7:15 am

Hi Cole,
thank you for this and you're time. I definitley have some walls communicating. I appreciate you're patience and understanding.
You are welcome. Not everybody communicates clearly. Many people don’t. It easier for some, and harder for others.
My investigation when looking for an I or self, I find nobody
When asking who the experiancer was, nobody replied.
When I asked who is the self/me, there was no reply. Just thoughts that come up to try and answer the question.
And what if the seeming self is the one asking the questions?
When searching for the experiancer I called out, who are you? And got no response just thoughts.
And when the question is asked “who are you?” – where is the one is asking this question?

There is no point in waiting for an answer to arrive, since that could arrive only as a thought, just as you noticed.
When I look for the experiancer I use my fingers to try and point to them. but there is no one there to point at.
I tried to use sight to see an experiancer but I couldn't,
i tried to touch the experiancer and couldn't
Thank you for sharing this. This is important, and please do it next time too. If you share with me how you do the looking, then I might have a chance to spot something you are not seeing.

For example, what you shared above is very useful, since I can see that you are not checking one important aspect of experience, and that is feeling.

The self is often shows up as a feeling… the feeling of as if I were somewhere inside the body, looking out through the eyes.

So next time when you search for the self, pay particular attention to feelings, to sensations.

Scan through the whole body and FEEL all the sensations there, and then investigate:

Which sensation feels to be me?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Thu May 28, 2020 10:14 pm

Hello,
And what if the seeming self is the one asking the questions?
Through investigation there is no self just Experience...
There is no one i can touch or see. Just thoughts that come into Experience and feelings that come up as sensations that would be attached to nothing, unless labelled as a I/self/me

And when the question is asked “who are you?” – where is the one is asking this question?
There is no point in waiting for an answer to arrive, since that could arrive only as a thought, just as you noticed.
There is no one asking the questions.
When I look for the experiencer I use my fingers to try and point to them. but there is no one there to point at.
I tried to use sight to see an experiancer but I couldn't,
i tried to touch the experiancer and couldn't
When I tried to feel the me, There was sensations that came up that are labelled as mine.
My hands type, my feet walk. there is sensation of keys being typed
There is sensations of ground being touched
Feelings about thoughts arise as sensations in the body as well. looking for an I to claim them
I feel full, MY stomach is heavy. sensations that are being labelled inside of MY body
Thank you for sharing this. This is important, and please do it next time too. If you share with me how you do the looking, then I might have a chance to spot something you are not seeing.
For example, what you shared above is very useful, since I can see that you are not checking one important aspect of experience, and that is feeling.
Feelings come up as sensations that I label to parts of Experience. Thought coming up saying a my leg is felt when there is just sensations being labelled, as mine because of the belief of body parts being mine

Scan through the whole body and FEEL all the sensations there, and then investigate:

Which sensation feels to be me?
The sensations I feel that I label are mine:
my eyes my ears nose leg hands
But when I investigate these parts of "me" there is just sensations that are labelled and believed to be mine
"that feeling is in MY leg"
Instead of sensations happening in experience

I Cant see my eyes, ears, mouth.
Why do I believe that hand and body parts are mine. That's just a Thought as well
When rain touches the face I feel a sensation that I wanna say came from my face but thats just another thought.

When a glass is touched there is no one to feel a sensation of a glass - I label my hand touches a glass saying my hand felt the sensation.
Glass was touched /Experianced

Cole

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Fri May 29, 2020 8:04 am

Hi Cole,

You did a nice exploration :)

When you are not looking, but in the midst of your everyday life, does it FEEL like that I am the doer, I am the thinker, I’m feeling emotions, I am making decisions?

In your everyday like, does it feel that I am inside the body, experiencing the world through the body, from within?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 30, 2020 3:26 am

Helllllloooooo,
When you are not looking, but in the midst of your everyday life, does it FEEL like that I am the doer, I am the thinker, I’m feeling emotions, I am making decisions?
During everyday life right now?
When there is no investigating, Yes, emotions come up that i own,
When there is things to be done I feel like I must do them.
There is Times where there's a distinct, i am thinking and i must then make the decision.
In your everyday like, does it feel that I am inside the body, experiencing the world through the body, from within?
When not investigating there is this feeling of I am typing i am looking out of Cole and feeling the aches and pains of the body that is mine.

cheers

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sat May 30, 2020 4:12 am

Hi Cole,

Thank you for sharing how it’s like when not looking. This is important, since it’s not enough to see that there is no self when looking, if it still feels that there is one in everyday life.

So this is what we have to focus on.

So my suggestion is that not just investigate when doing nothing else, but rather in the midst of your everyday life, especially when it FEELS that I am doing, I am feeling, I am thinking, I am choosing, I am deciding.

As soon as you notice that it FEELS that there is a me/Cole doing all of these, stop for a moment, and FEEL the sensation in the body that FEELS to be me.

Where is the sensation in the body that feels to be me?

The self is not just a thought, but an actual feeling, a sensation in the body.

Please investigate any bodily movements during the day.

Which feels to be truer:

- I have no control over what I am doing, I am not moving the arms and legs, they just move, and I just passively observe it.
OR
- There is nothing inside moving the body. The body just moves on its own, without a person orchestrating the movements from within?


Please be careful not just to think this through, but rather experiment with the two options. Try them out, and see which one is in line with what is actually happening.

And do this not just once, not twice, but repeat this many times (20+) during the day. You can experiment with any movement, going up and down the staircase, standing up, sitting down, having a shower, brushing your teeth, doing the dishes, having a dinner, etc. Experiment with all sorts of everyday happenings.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:27 am

Hi there,
I am still sitting in that last part trying to speak from Experiance not intellectual understanding

Thanks
Cole c


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