Looking to lose the me

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Fri May 15, 2020 6:01 am

Hi Cole,

Could you please write a bit about how does the me show up in your everyday life?
What is the feeling of ‘being me'?

And what is real and what is not? What is the difference between reality and imagination?


Please reply what feels true for you.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 16, 2020 1:46 am

Helllllllllo,
Could you please write a bit about how does the me show up in your everyday life?
In everyday day life right now with the the semi lockdown that means
"I" wakeup commitments like school
"I" have to be present to speak and respond
"i" I have homework and other tasks to do
"I" have thoughts about tasks homework school
"I" have wants or needs that come up as thoughts

What is the feeling of ‘being me'?
I can't feel a me
And what is real and what is not? What is the difference between reality and imagination?
Wow that one really got me ;)
I wanted to tell you how I could feel a feeling by a bunch of thoughts.

Reality is something that can be Experianced touched felt seen heard.
Imagination is a story/thought. -That cannot be Experianced
I cannot Experiance a feeling of me.
Inversely Where I can create a story and use my imagination to tell you about a me..a collection of past beliefs or thoughts that I've labelled to me. That I have to think of to tell you.


Cheers .

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am

Hi Cole,

Let’s explore what actually is. What is actually happening without thoughts and imagination.

Please be careful not to rush through the questions, and just quickly agree or disagree with them, but actually investigate them deeply.

When a sensation is present, it’s here, it’s real, it’s happening, right?
When there is a sound, then it’s real and it’s happening, isn’t?
And what about tastes and smells? When they are happening, they are undeniably there? Would you agree?
And what about colors and shapes? They are happening too, right?


So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.


Is there anything else that you can be sure that it’s real and it’s happening other than experience (color, sound, taste, smell, sensation) here right now, in this very moment?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Tue May 19, 2020 1:51 am

Hi,
Let’s explore what actually is. What is actually happening without thoughts and imagination.
Ok, what actually is
Please be careful not to rush through the questions, and just quickly agree or disagree with them, but actually investigate them deeply.
I've tried to take the time.
When a sensation is present, it’s here, it’s real, it’s happening, right?
yes
When there is a sound, then it’s real and it’s happening, isn’t?
yes
And what about tastes and smells? When they are happening, they are undeniably there? Would you agree?
When they are happening they are definitely there no doubt about it.
And what about colors and shapes? They are happening too, right?
yes
So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.
Experiance IS- meaning there's nothing else but Experiance and all these labels for things
Is there anything else that you can be sure that it’s real and it’s happening other than experience (color, sound, taste, smell, sensation) here right now, in this very moment?
there is nothing else I can be sure of

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Tue May 19, 2020 5:40 am

Hi Cole,
V: So experience IS. Experience is what actually IS. Experience is all that IS.
C: Experiance IS- meaning there's nothing else but Experiance and all these labels for things
Let me ask you some clarifying questions.

Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?

When you say ‘meaning…..’ – are you trying to interpret and understand what I say and think it through?

How do you regard this inquiry? As a teaching that provides new information that can be learned? Or how exactly?

What do you do exactly after you reading my questions?

How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed May 20, 2020 8:36 am

Hello,

Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote
describing this seems to be the problem it's happening and that's only be seen through Experiance and there is no experiancer to describe what happened without it being a story about a character.
When you say ‘meaning…..’ – are you trying to interpret and understand what I say and think it through?
it's tricky to use words that are not going to be heard as intellectual understanding. There is Experiance trying to be described. Not intellectual understanding
How do you regard this inquiry? As a teaching that provides new information that can be learned? Or how exactly?
this inquiry is about finding the truth it cannot be stored as a idea or a belief it has to be practiced through Experiance to cut away the lies that are told through stories and ideas so filling it with more ideas wouldn't work. Describing and experiancing these things so they are seen as truth is a challange forsure. When seein things and trying to describe them it easy to use intellectual understanding to describe Experiances

I see
It felt like to me
I understand
I read and udnerstand ( is it experianceally or intellcuatually)

When reading these words I know there Is an experiancing through seeing... but there's no experiancer (I)
What do you do exactly after you reading my questions?
after reading the questions there is this inquiry about the questions or ideas and does it fit into an Experiance (truth) or a thought/story.

How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Wed May 20, 2020 11:18 am

Hi Cole,

Do you read your own comments before submitting it?
Because if you don’t, I would like to do it.

You sparsely use punctuation marks, and your comments leave lots of guessing on my part. Trying to figure out what you wanted to say. Which could be OK in an everyday conversation, but in this inquiry precision counts a lot.

I write my comments and questions based on your answers, but if your answers and not clear, and I have to speculate what you wanted to say, then our investigation can go off.

Please try to use language which describe your experience as precisely as you can. And please read your own comments before posting it, and correct it when it’s needed.

For example, read this quote:
V: How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
C: everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist
When you say ‘IT’ doesn’t exist, what do you refer to by word ‘it’?
Do you see that you are not communicating clearly?


I’m wondering, are you replying from your phone, so you are trying to write quick and short answers?
V: Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?
C: describing this seems to be the problem it's happening and that's only be seen through Experiance and there is no experiancer to describe what happened without it being a story about a character.
It’s not about using or not using first-person pronouns. My question was entirely about something else.

What I was asking, if you actually investigating your immediate raw experience, and your replies come from what you can actually SEE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE
OR
You are just THINKING about the answers, and you are weighing pros and cons based on logical thinking?
I see
It felt like to me
I understand
I read and udnerstand ( is it experianceally or intellcuatually)

When reading these words I know there Is an experiancing through seeing... but there's no experiancer (I)
But my question is the same as before.

You say that you KNOW ‘there is an experiencing through seeing, but there is no experiencer’.
But HOW do you know this?

Do you know this because you’ve heard and read about from others
OR
because you are actually SEEING EXPERIENTIALLY that there is no experiencer?

How did you come up with the reply that there is no experiencer?
Did you searched (literally) for it?
If yes, WHERE did you searched for the experiencer?


I would like to ask you to SEARCH for the experiencer, right now.
Where do you search for it? Where do you look?
It has to be practiced through Experience
What is it exactly that is practicing through experience?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am

Hi there,
Checking in got you're message. It's Been a busy end to the week.
I will have some time to write out a reply TMR.

Thank you
Cheers

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sun May 24, 2020 6:07 am

Hello,
This last week was full of moments that were great to look for a self.

The last message you sent brought up alot of thoughts and feelings in the self. While at the same time My ex-partner wrote me a breakup message that conicoded with some of the messages in this chat the same week. About expressing myself clearly and sharing in my Experiance.This has made me look at my inquiry here even deeper And try and look closer
Some triggers were hit, this feeling of not being understood. Fear, frustartion and anger.

I put these thoughts to the test of Experiance.
Who is the i that feels triggered
Who feels misunderstood.
Who is angry right now.
Are these not thoughts just trying to protect themselves.
Trying to reinforce the me.

But they are just thoughts they can't be proven to be real.
There is no self to feel triggered, misunderstood, or angry, just thoughts...
When thoughts come up I have tried to look for sensations that come with them.
thank you for this and you're time. I definitley have some walls communicating. I appreciate you're patience and understanding.

I meant to ask is English you're first language? I write in slang which I'm seeing is not good for this inquiry and is a great reminder it needs to be better.
I re-read our whole conversation over again. I felt I needed a reminder of honesty, clarity.
To re-experiance the process so far. There has been times where I am unclear of the questions you have asked.





Please try to use language which describe your experience as precisely as you can. And please read your own comments before posting it, and correct it when it’s needed
My Experiance and more clear points gotcha.
For example, read this quote:
V: How do you know exactly that ‘there is nothing else but experience and all these labels for things’?
C: everything is within Experiance without Experiance it doesn't excist
When you say ‘IT’ doesn’t exist, what do you refer to by word ‘it’?
Do you see that you are not communicating clearly?
I see how I need to put it into my direct Experiance.
Experiance is, and everything else that comes up into Experiance is Experiance, a thought or story about Experiance
V: Do you REALLY SEE this, or rather you just accepted what I wrote?
What I was asking, if you actually investigating your immediate raw experience, and your replies come from what you can actually SEE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE
OR
You are just THINKING about the answers, and you are weighing pros and cons based on logical thinking?
I investigate raw Experiance with the information we have talked about throughout the days. Beliefs and thinking happens in Experiance.. when thoughts come up with a self, I start a direct investigation most of the time for: "who is this self" there is things happening but are they happening to "me"
But my question is the same as before.
You say that you KNOW ‘there is an experiencing through seeing, but there is no experiencer’.
But HOW do you know this?
My investigation when looking for an I or self, I find nobody
When asking who the experiancer was, nobody replied.
When I asked who is the self/me, there was no reply. Just thoughts that come up to try and answer the question.
But a thought explaining a thought cannot be truth.
That leaves just raw Experiance with no experiancer
Do you know this because you’ve heard and read about from others
OR
because you are actually SEEING EXPERIENTIALLY that there is no experiencer?
I have been trying to test Experiance with other experiments like the coffee and cups we did prior.
For example :
When the finger touches the leg there is sensations... is it the finger or the leg felt. Or is it just raw sensation, that then is labelled as something with thoughts...
How did you come up with the reply that there is no experiencer?
Did you searched (literally) for it?
If yes, WHERE did you searched for the experiencer?
When searching for the experiancer I called out, who are you? And got no response just thoughts.
I tried to point at the self and couldn't see them
I would like to ask you to SEARCH for the experiencer, right now.
Where do you search for it? Where do you look?
When I look for the experiancer I use my fingers to try and point to them. but there is no one there to point at.
I tried to use sight to see an experiancer but I couldn't,
i tried to touch the experiancer and couldn't
What is it exactly that is practicing through experience?
The only thing I can find is Experiance, there is not a self to practice, Experiance just is accompanied with thoughts and story's about it.

Cheers
Cole

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sun May 24, 2020 7:15 am

Hi Cole,
thank you for this and you're time. I definitley have some walls communicating. I appreciate you're patience and understanding.
You are welcome. Not everybody communicates clearly. Many people don’t. It easier for some, and harder for others.
My investigation when looking for an I or self, I find nobody
When asking who the experiancer was, nobody replied.
When I asked who is the self/me, there was no reply. Just thoughts that come up to try and answer the question.
And what if the seeming self is the one asking the questions?
When searching for the experiancer I called out, who are you? And got no response just thoughts.
And when the question is asked “who are you?” – where is the one is asking this question?

There is no point in waiting for an answer to arrive, since that could arrive only as a thought, just as you noticed.
When I look for the experiancer I use my fingers to try and point to them. but there is no one there to point at.
I tried to use sight to see an experiancer but I couldn't,
i tried to touch the experiancer and couldn't
Thank you for sharing this. This is important, and please do it next time too. If you share with me how you do the looking, then I might have a chance to spot something you are not seeing.

For example, what you shared above is very useful, since I can see that you are not checking one important aspect of experience, and that is feeling.

The self is often shows up as a feeling… the feeling of as if I were somewhere inside the body, looking out through the eyes.

So next time when you search for the self, pay particular attention to feelings, to sensations.

Scan through the whole body and FEEL all the sensations there, and then investigate:

Which sensation feels to be me?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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