I need help

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:09 pm

Hi Michael,
Are you spending time in nature watching the birds and animals?
Unfortunately not possible at the moment, no non essential travel allowed where I am.
Are you reading the Gateless Gatecrasher threads?
Yes, but I could read more.
There is not a separate self. It is an illusion. You believe there is one. I send you to search for it. It cannot be found except as thought.....

Are you thought or not?
No.
Why choose...
There is no choice. It either happens or it doesn’t, makes no difference.

Regard,
Nessie

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MichaelD
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:12 am

Hi Nessie,

So right now can you please write what your experience of having, or being, a sparate self is.

What is it exactly?

Where is it exactly?

Not an intelectual answer - but from direct experience right here, right now.

So as you start typing, "Hi Michael etc, etc" where and what is it.

Or are there just thoughts appearing and fingers moving? Colour and sound.

Thanks,

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:32 pm

Hi Michael,
So right now can you please write what your experience of having, or being, a sparate self is.

What is it exactly.
Thoughts.
Where is it exactly?
No where.
Or are there just thoughts appearing and fingers moving? Colour and sound.
Yes.

Regards,
Nessie

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MichaelD
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:13 am

Hi Nessie,
So right now can you please write what your experience of having, or being, a sparate self is.

What is it exactly.

Thoughts.

So, this is what you believe (as most folk do) - that 'you' are your thought.

Where are you then in gaps between thought?

Or do you cease to exist?

Please don't answer intelectually but investigate gaps in thought......


If thoughts like now are a picture of a pink elephant, pink elephant, pink elephant, are you now a pink elephant?

Where was Nessie while you were a pink elephant?

Or a post Covid colourful fantasy about visiting a friend and picnicking on the beach.

Are you now a fantasy on a beach in the future (whatever 'the future' is, or isn't).


Can you REALLY be your thought when there is an experience of being that is so much more substantial than the tiny, wisp like nothingness of thought?

Surely they are a small part of experience?


You then go on to say that thoughts are nowhere.......


And that there is JUST THIS ie an utter absence of person........


Which of the above is the truth?

Happy looking,

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:56 pm

Hi Michael,
So, this is what you believe (as most folk do) - that 'you' are your thought.

Where are you then in gaps between thought?

Or do you cease to exist?
I believe ‘Nessie’ is thought.

I observe the thought and I observe the gaps between thought. I observe the thing called Nessie created by thought. Sometimes (more accurately, most of the time) I identify with it and sometimes I do not.
If thoughts like now are a picture of a pink elephant, pink elephant, pink elephant, are you now a pink elephant?

Where was Nessie while you were a pink elephant?
Nessie ceases to exist as soon as the self referential though that creates Nessie stops.

Can you REALLY be your thought when there is an experience of being that is so much more substantial than the tiny, wisp like nothingness of thought?
Nessie is thought. I am Nessie when I identify with that thought, but no, I am not that. I am that in which the thought occurs.
You then go on to say that thoughts are nowhere.......


And that there is JUST THIS ie an utter absence of person........


Which of the above is the truth?
The self created by thought is nowhere. Both are true, they are not mutually exclusive, thought is part of JUST THIS.

Regards,
Nessie

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MichaelD
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:35 pm

Hi Nessie,

Sorry for not replying yesterday, a full day but without a computer in sight.


To paraphrase, you notice that Nessie is a thought construct and that 'you' are what the thoughts are occuring in.

You then describe what experience is in a non dual way.


Has what you have written sunk in? (Not that there is anything for it to sink into!).

How does it make you feel to see that the separate self construct called Nessie is no more that a thought story, a fiction? Wisps of dreamstuff?


What is happening for you now? Is there any difference in how life is experienced?

Warm regards,

Michael

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Nessie
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Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:26 pm

Hi Michael,
Sorry for not replying yesterday, a full day but without a computer in sight.
That sounds like heaven, I hope you enjoyed it.
Has what you have written sunk in? (Not that there is anything for it to sink into!).
Yes, I think to a degree it has.
How does it make you feel to see that the separate self construct called Nessie is no more that a thought story, a fiction? Wisps of dreamstuff?


What is happening for you now? Is there any difference in how life is experienced?
Life seems to be have become more amusing and entertaining. It’s funny when I catch Nessie or others taking things so seriously.

Regards,
Nessie

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MichaelD
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Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:59 pm

Hiya,

Yes, it was good to hasve a break from computers and I have now got a lot more free time coming up :-)

Life seems to be have become more amusing and entertaining. It’s funny when I catch Nessie or others taking things so seriously.

Please share more about this new perspective.

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:06 pm

Hi Michael,

Seeing people acting out their own stories, or catching myself doing it, knowing that it’s just a story.

I am angry! No, angry thoughts is being experienced.
I am sad! No, sad thoughts is being experienced.
I am unhappy! No, unhappy thoughts is being experienced.
I am bored! No, boring thoughts is being experienced.

Everything is taken so personally.

Regard,
Nessie

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MichaelD
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:31 pm

Hi Nessie,
Seeing people acting out their own stories, or catching myself doing it, knowing that it’s just a story.

Yes,It is just a story.

But is there a person acting it out?

Or is it just life expressing itself in the moment, like a tree bending in the wind, or a bird squaking because another bird has landed close by?

I am angry! No, angry thoughts is being experienced.
I am sad! No, sad thoughts is being experienced.
I am unhappy! No, unhappy thoughts is being experienced.
I am bored! No, boring thoughts is being experienced.

Everything is taken so personally.

Yes, experience is claimed by thought and woven in to the Nessie character's story line.


Can you find the owner of experience?


Go back to sitting quietly.

What is a more accurate description of reality:-

Birdsong, traffic, hum from fridge, or "I can hear a bird", I can hear the traffic etc"?


Warm regards,

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:39 pm

Hi Michael,
But is there a person acting it out?

Or is it just life expressing itself in the moment, like a tree bending in the wind, or a bird squaking because another bird has landed close by?
Not a real one.
Can you find the owner of experience?
No.
What is a more accurate description of reality:-

Birdsong, traffic, hum from fridge, or "I can hear a bird", I can hear the traffic etc"?
The former, but part of the experience is also experiencing an imaginary person.

Regard,
Nessie

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MichaelD
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:12 am

Hi Nessie,

Great post!

So is a fictitious character created by empty thought a person?

(Remember a thought about an elephant is NOT an elephant!).

Does a separate self exist? Does a rock, tree, bird, mammal, or human, possess a separate self or is there just life as one movement?

Is any part of life separate? How could you/it be? Have a look.....

Warm regards,

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:39 pm

Hi Michael,
So is a fictitious character created by empty thought a person?
Well, a person is nothing but a fictitious character created by empty thought, so in that way it is. But is it a person in a way that most people would think? No.
Does a separate self exist? Does a rock, tree, bird, mammal, or human, possess a separate self or is there just life as one movement?
No.
Is any part of life separate? How could you/it be? Have a look.....
No.

Regards,
Nessie

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MichaelD
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: I need help

Postby MichaelD » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:58 pm

Hi Nessie,

So what do you think is happenning?

Have you arrived at an intelectual understanding of no-self (or at least how the 'self' is constructed)?

Or do you feel there has been any 'seeing' of this? Any kind of shift?

Warm regards,

Michael

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Nessie
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: I need help

Postby Nessie » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:45 pm

Hi Michael,
Have you arrived at an intelectual understanding of no-self (or at least how the 'self' is constructed)?

Or do you feel there has been any 'seeing' of this? Any kind of shift?
I see how the self is constructed, and intellectually I understand that It is empty. The self which I experience is empty. The experience hasn’t disappeared, but I now know what it is.

Regards,
Nessie


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