The red thread

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Prasanna
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The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:03 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that this is guidance for experiencing directly that there is no separate self to identify with and to live on behalf of.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for being guided to see through the illusion of separation more clearly and to be more established in the truth (so that there is less going back and forth between seeing and identification).

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't know what to expect from such a guided conversation as a format but otherwise I expect it to be tailored to my specific limitations in seeing, to shed light on my blindspots and keep me on track along the way.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Over the years I have practiced active meditations and been to self-inquiry retreats, have been interested in non-duality and there have been some openings and seeing.
About 5 years ago a difficult relationship triggered a psychological crisis (panic attacks and depression) leading to a downward spiral and taking medication (which I stopped about a year and a half ago). An essential part of going through the crisis , among other things, was practising mindfulness meditation for a period of time. This whole challenge intensified the search. I also reconnected to the non-dual teachings (Rupert Spira especially).
Recently there is experience of more and more seeing and disidentification and at the same time also still contracting back into the illusiory self and living on behalf of it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:10 am

Hi Prasana,

I am Jadzia and if you like we can walk some steps together and shed some lights on some things.
I am looking for being guided to see through the illusion of separation more clearly and to be more established in the truth (so that there is less going back and forth between seeing and identification).
Please describe what you have seen so far.

And please go into detail about your expectations for this process.

Thank you,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:35 pm

Hi Jadzia,

Thank you for responding to my request for a guide!
Please describe what you have seen so far.
At times I feel that I am the space in which everything happens and out of which everything is made and that the self is just a thought without substance.
At other times, especially when challenges show up, it is as if an entity takes shape and solidifies and feels quite real and separate. I realize that this also is a happening in me but in such moments (periods of time) it feels as me.
And please go into detail about your expectations for this process.
I expect more of the first (of the above) and less of the second or a switch to some completely new seeing that is beyond my current expectations.

Thank you,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:29 pm

At times I feel that I am the space in which everything happens and out of which everything is made and that the self is just a thought without substance.
Who or what is the I in which something can happen?
Please describe it.
At other times, especially when challenges show up, it is as if an entity takes shape and solidifies and feels quite real and separate.
Ok, if there is a entity which takes shape and solidifies, can it be really experienced in the direct experience in the very moment?
(Direct experience meaning that which can be tasted, seen, smelled, heared, felt (in the sense of physical sensation).
A thought can be experienced in DE too, but just in the way of "Hey, there is a thought". The content of thought is a different matter all together.)
So where is this entity called I found?
I expect more of the first (of the above) and less of the second or a switch to some completely new seeing that is beyond my current expectations.
Gating is one step, there are more to follow. Meaning: realizing the illusion of self doesn't clear everything, though it is a wonderful beginning.
If these are your only expectations, they are quite moderate. But during our time together please have a keen eye on expectations you might have not noticed or which show up during the process. It is best to put them aside, since they can get into the way.

Love,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:03 pm

Who or what is the I in which something can happen?
It feels limitless, transparent, still, gentle, radiant...
So where is this entity called I found?
It can't be experienced as an entity directly in the moment.
It's as if when I look for it it's not there (I can't find it) and when I don't look for it it's there (as a mental construct, I guess).

Regarding the expectations - note taken.

Love back,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:35 pm

Who or what is the I in which something can happen?
It feels limitless, transparent, still, gentle, radiant...
Sounds like a wonderful feeling - but unluckily this doesn't answer my question.
If you want to find an answer, please add looking directly at what is there in your direct experience.
It can't be experienced as an entity directly in the moment.
So you didn't find an entity self or Prasanna in by direct looking what can be experienced. Ok.
It's as if when I look for it it's not there (I can't find it) and when I don't look for it it's there (as a mental construct, I guess).
Tsk, guessing is no good here. ;-)
You do find it.
Lets have a look together: Allow me to guess that you found nothing by the senses, the tasted, seen, smelled, heared, felt (in the sense of physical sensation), right?
So how does the information come on board?
"A thought can be experienced in DE too, but just in the way of "Hey, there is a thought". (The content of thought is a different matter all together.)"
Bear me, so there is no need to guess, or?

Love,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Who or what is the I in which something can happen?
It doesn't have any tangible characteristics that can be felt by the senses.
You do find it.
Do you mean to say that I find it ("this entity called I") as a thought and that "the information comes on board" as a thought?
Please clarify.

Love,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:22 pm

It doesn't have any tangible characteristics that can be felt by the senses.
So it is found in thoughts content.
Is it more than a label/abstract you used to describe something or is it just that?
Do you mean to say that I find it ("this entity called I") as a thought and that "the information comes on board" as a thought?
Yes, same as above. If it can't be felt, tasted, heard and so on the only source of information is thought.
Or do you find another source?

You wrote:
It's as if when I look for it it's not there (I can't find it) and when I don't look for it it's there (as a mental construct, I guess).
I guess you mean direct looking, right?
When you look you find the I, the self, the Prasanna. Where? In the story of Prasanna, which happens in thoughts content, just by listening to thoughts. What you don't find is an entity Prasanna, a real self, or? Someone tangible.
When you don't use direct looking, it is the same - the Prasanna appears as thoughts content, though some thoughts might tell about the self being real.....

Lets have a look at thoughts content for a moment.
Thoughts can be experienced, right, the content can't.
Close your eyes for a moment: Imagine a lovely piece of fruit you really like, go for it. Paint a picture, you can see it, taste it, feel it.
Open your eyes: Is the fruit found anywhere in your direct experience, right now?

Love,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:08 am

Is it more than a label/abstract you used to describe something or is it just that?
What is this something (which is not a thought/self thought or perception) that I'm using labels to describe?
Is it not where thoughts and perceptions appear and disappear but it itself remains?

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Prasanna
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Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:44 am

So how does the information come on board?
And what is this "on board" where the information (as thoughts and sensations) come?

Love,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:14 am

What is this something (which is not a thought/self thought or perception) that I'm using labels to describe?
Is it not where thoughts and perceptions appear and disappear but it itself remains?
Nach oben
You give the answer, please.
Over time people called it all kind of words, the important thing here is to get that a label doesn't describe what something is, it just names it.
And what is this "on board" where the information (as thoughts and sensations) come?
A manner of speaking, nothing else.

Did you do the exercise and what did you find?

Love,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:50 am

Did you do the exercise and what did you find?
Yes, I did it.
Yes, there is a direct experience of a thought but not of its content.

Love,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:37 am

At other times, especially when challenges show up, it is as if an entity takes shape and solidifies and feels quite real and separate. I realize that this also is a happening in me but in such moments (periods of time) it feels as me.
When this happens where or how do you find/know that there is a self?
What exactly feels like you?

Love,
Jadzia

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Prasanna
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: The red thread

Postby Prasanna » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:59 pm

When this happens where or how do you find/know that there is a self?
I find it as thought content, as the story of me.

Love,
Prasanna

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Jadzia
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Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: The red thread

Postby Jadzia » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:05 am

What exactly makes it feel like you?

Do you expect the story to disappear?

Love,
Jadzia


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