Stillness

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:27 am

That's great Faithy! Its wonderful to have a that first glimpse Could you see HOW that happened?
I was just very still listening in the early morning in bed and there was just a subtle shift in the way I was experiencing the moment.
The key condition here seems to be 'listening' and resting with AE. With less thinking there can be space to relax into what is, into seeing what is here ...in this case sounds of early morning. It can be this simple and this easy.
What is the tension? Where? It's resistance - to what?
It's fear that the world will seem less loving after a shift. It's an interesting time on the planet as it is and currently this persona 'faithy' is functioning well and calmly amidst a lot of turbulent family emotions not to mention the crisis work that is my job. I don't want to add to the chaos but be a voice of peace and love. I'm scared I will lose that calmness as belief systems crumble.
I'm very glad that you've explored this feeling as you have Faithy. It's really important to acknowledge this. A lot of people fear that they will loose their ability to act and love and care.

When fear arises please, as best you can, allow the experience, it is thought and sensation, we cannot make it go away, it has already presented so we can work 'with' it, pause, acknowledge what is here, notice any tendency to want to get rid of experience or to move on, instead allow the sensation to bloom, allow thoughts to gather, breathe with the whole thing, embrace it like you would a child who is afraid, stay close to experience, watch what happens.

There are thoughts with content - 'the world will be less loving', but remember Faithy, there has never been a self. It is not that which is functioning calmly and effectively. It's happening without self ... this is the time to see this. The early morning unfolds without 'you', the world experiences crisis after crisis, with or without 'you'. There is a breech in the belief in cause and effect. This is a new realisation. It can feel unsettling like we want to wrestle back control.

I don't want to add to the chaos but be a voice of peace and love. I'm scared I will lose that calmness as belief systems crumble.

You cannot lose what you never had. You have always been able to live efficiently, kindly, ethically and you have never had a self despite thought content.

When we believe in self, we also believe that 'our self' and 'other selves' shape and control the world and create reality, but this is not so, but this thought or belief attempts allays some kind of primary fear. When this belief in self begins to diminish, only then can we begin to see the nature of reality. Notice how you feel when you just listen in the early morning as the day unfolds. Notice how this feels. THIS is all that's actually happening.

Thought (the same thought that refers to self) is limited and unable to 'know' the nature of reality which isnt just loving, its made from that. The most important work we can do is to see that.

No chaos can ensue from seeing something that was never there. All that will happen is that you will see through an illusion.

Keep an eye on fear, meet it, stay close, bring it to the process here ... it's really important that you do that.
Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the ‘decision’, the ‘command’ to get up come from?
What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?

How does the decision happen?
Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does getting up just happen, or not?

Did an 'I' perform assessments and calculations necessary to heave a body into an upright position and then continue to take many decisions about moving legs into exactly the right positions to do 'walking to the kettle'?

No. Getting up happened after a lot of thought content about getting up. For some unknown and random reason the body just got up without a decision being made as to when or how. Same getting out of the shower-lots of deliberation in thought content but the shower was turned off independently of the thoughts. Shouting internally doesn't make a difference. No decider comes in it just happens. The body moves onto the next thing in its own time.
OK Faithy, these answers suggest that the body can get up and wash and flick the kettle on do all that without thought, without a controller, without self.

We can TRUST that life will go on without belief in controller/director/self. Trust that you will continue to work efficiently and to help and support others.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:40 am

Hi Faithy, lets keep the kettle on the boil with:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?


Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Hi Colette,

Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier. I need more time with this. Life has been a bit hectic.
There is a bit of house moving happening and will be for a few more days. Sorry for any inconvenience to you.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:22 pm

No worries, Faithy, take your time, things are a little unsettled to say the least. Hear from you soon - stay warm and well x

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:43 am

Hi Faithy,

I hope this finds you well. I hope things have settled for you. I'm also aware that if we leave this process too long we will lose continuity. Let me know if you'd like to continue.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:16 pm

Hi Colette,
I definitely want to continue. Sorry it's been so long. I wonder how you are in this interesting time? I've been very busy helping family get sorted for the weeks ahead. I just probably need a few more days before I can take some space to settle into our regular communication again. I'm working atm and it's an overnight 18 hour shift so I'll be pretty tired tomorrow. I appreciate all the effort you have taken to guide me .

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:30 am

Hi Colette,
Hopefully there will be a bit more space in my days now that some family is back from overseas and settled in their home and my daughter has moved into her new home and is set up enough.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
No, the qualities appeared in content of thought.
No ,preference also appeared but there was no chooser just more content of thought.

I
n step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
The preferences took the back seat automatically. No one chose.
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
I did not see any chooser.
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
No it is not in the nature of a feeling to choose.

Interestingly whilst doing this exercise I felt more like I was watching what was happening curiously rather than choosing.
Over the last week as the world shifted and I was really busy I felt very detached and calm. Thoughts kept popping up with content that could have caused emotional responses but mostly didn't. The things that needed to happen just happened without much angst or stress.

Hoping you and those you love are managing ok.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:04 pm

Hi Faithy, I'm very glad you want to continue :-)

Yeah, its all a bit bonkers in the UK with a lot of sudden and drastic change. I'm rolling with the punches at the moment. I've found myself the best conditions in which to live for the next couple of months and I do what I can to keep my income on stream. Uncertainty in all things is vivid at the moment, unsettling and beautiful.

I hope things continue to settle for you. It sounds like you work hard to help others and I hope that you can get some rest after the long shifts you work. I look forward to hearing from you when you're ready. Have an easy weekend x

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:46 am

Hi Colette,

I do love your comment "Uncertainty in all things is vivid at the moment, unsettling and beautiful."
Yes to that!

I think you may have missed a post that I sent on Friday at 12.30pm. If you can't see it I'll repost it.
Let me know if it's not up.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:20 am

Hi Faithy,

bit of post-lag there on my side.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
No, the qualities appeared in content of thought.
No, preference also appeared but there was no chooser just more content of thought.
Yes, there are thoughts and the content refers to qualities.
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
No it is not in the nature of a feeling to choose.
That's right, a feeling doesn't choose, a thought doesn't choose, even a thought that says 'I' am choosing is still just and only a thought.

Interestingly whilst doing this exercise I felt more like I was watching what was happening curiously rather than choosing.
Two things about this - it sounds like a sense of relaxed observation has settled in which you can see that life unfolds and is known but no middle man i.e. the self is required for that to happen.
Lets just check this out. Is there 'a' watcher? Could the watcher be the self hiding behind seeing? Or, is seeing just and only seeing? Remember to look rather than default to answering through thinking.
Over the last week as the world shifted and I was really busy I felt very detached and calm. Thoughts kept popping up with content that could have caused emotional responses but mostly didn't. The things that needed to happen just happened without much angst or stress
This sounds really hopeful Faithy, it feels like the work you've done around thoughts has paid off and translated into increased spaciousness and stability. It sounds like thinking has reduced giving way to a easy looking, enabling you to see (even under stress) that life is happening and there is no one to control it, no one to choose or not to choose.

Really encouraging, like the water is clearing :-)

Lets get back I the saddle with:

Doership Exercise

Although you see that there is no noticer/observer/witness, there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’. So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:25 am

Hi Colette,
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
No. I cannot turn seeing off. Thoughts may appear and the content may distract from what is seen but it's still being seen in the background. Thoughts are there . Shape and colour are there. Labelling happens.
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
No.
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
No. Seeing can't be turned off.
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
No. There is no self choosing.
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
The obvious thought is that I choose what I do but there is no chooser to be seen and yet things get done.
The relationship between thought and action is very interesting. Awareness was watching objects moving in the water this morning and then the thought arose that they were feet , then oh they're "my" feet. It was just a funny moment.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:44 am

Code: Select all

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen? No. I cannot turn seeing off. Thoughts may appear and the content may distract from what is seen but it's still being seen in the background. Thoughts are there . Shape and colour are there. Labelling happens.
Yup, sounds good. Seeing just happens, no need for a 'seer' or chooser.
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
The obvious thought is that I choose what I do but there is no chooser to be seen and yet things get done.
So the only 'I' that you can find is thought content - it does not appear in AE. Life happens nevertheless.

But again, if you are dont choose what you're aware of, what else is there to choose? You might want to sit with that for a moment. If you're not choosing what you're actually aware of...do you choose anything? Pause and feel into that.
The relationship between thought and action is very interesting. Awareness was watching objects moving in the water this morning and then the thought arose that they were feet , then oh they're "my" feet. It was just a funny moment.
How do you know that awareness is watching? Are you looking at awareness which is looking at the feet? 🙂

So there was seeing (things in water) followed by 2 thought labels describing AE i.e. 'feet and 'my', both concepts. Is there any connection between the things in the water and the thought labels?

'Is there a relationship between thought and action? Is there some thing that links them?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:31 am

Hi Colette,
But again, if you are dont choose what you're aware of, what else is there to choose? You might want to sit with that for a moment. If you're not choosing what you're actually aware of...do you choose anything? Pause and feel into that.
Well actually no. There is no chooser.
The relationship between thought and action is very interesting. Awareness was watching objects moving in the water this morning and then the thought arose that they were feet , then oh they're "my" feet. It was just a funny moment.
How do you know that awareness is watching? Are you looking at awareness which is looking at the feet? 🙂
No. I'm awareness. Awareness is not separate and being looked at. Life is being experienced through awareness.

So there was seeing (things in water) followed by 2 thought labels describing AE i.e. 'feet and 'my', both concepts. Is there any connection between the things in the water and the thought labels?

Not in AE just in the content of thought so no.


'
Is there a relationship between thought and action? Is there some thing that links them?
Thoughts appear labelling etc. after actions or almost simultaneously but there is no link.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:15 pm

Hi Faithy,
How do you know that awareness is watching? Are you looking at awareness which is looking at the feet?
No. I'm awareness. Awareness is not separate and being looked at. Life is being experienced through awareness."
That's right, awareness is not separate or being looked at, but 'life is being experienced trough awareness' is a story, for awareness to experience life it would have to be outside of itself. Does that make sense?

Awareness isn't a container that contains experiences or the world. Let's consider what "awareness" is and isn't.

Is it something other than, different to, or separate from, experience? In other words have you experienced awareness as anything distinct from whatever is being awared? If not…then where exactly can this awareness that you keep alluding to be found exactly? What does it look like? Where is it located? Does it have any qualities?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:41 pm

Hi Colette,

These answers come from glimpses rather than sustained experience.
Awareness isn't a container that contains experiences or the world. Let's consider what "awareness" is and isn't.

Is it something other than, different to, or separate from, experience? In other words have you experienced awareness as anything distinct from whatever is being awared? If not…then where exactly can this awareness that you keep alluding to be found exactly? What does it look like? Where is it located? Does it have any qualities?
Mmmmmm. Awareness is everywhere rather than somewhere. No. It's not different from experience. It doesn't look like anything. Its qualities are profound stillness and aliveness.


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