Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Hi Steve

Happy to know you are doing well. Wish your safety in the turbulent weather.
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
I don't have answer to this question. I don't know if there is a me or if there is something beyond me waiting to be discovered. I don't even know who to ask this question to. It is what it is. It has always been like this.

There is a lot of conditioning over a period of time/looking for a special state of happiness - enlightenment/Nirvana. It leads to rejection of present moment as not a good enough state. Whether this special state exist- I don't know. Am I looking for it now- not presently, don't know if this will change in future.

Have I become detached from everything- no

Have I become attached to something - no

Have thoughts disappeared- no

Does these thoughts belong to me- don't know. They keep appearing and disappearing, saying something or the other about the story of me

Do I believe in the story of me- I am living the story, believing or not believing doesn't change anything.

Do I feel the emotions like sad, happy etc - yes all emotions are experienced

Do I fear anything - surprisingly I am not experiencing fear. Everything will happen as it is ought to happen.

Will everyone start loving me/ I will start loving everyone- this question doesn't matter

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:34 am

Hi Seenam,

Do you think you have realised what you wanted to when you started ?

There is a lot of conditioning over a period of time/looking for a special state of happiness - enlightenment/Nirvana. It leads to rejection of present moment as not a good enough state.
Absolutely. Who is/was looking for the special state?

I don't know if there is a me or if there is something beyond me waiting to be discovered.

You won't know if there is a me but you will know when it's known there isn't one !!!

All the best,
Steve.

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:50 pm

Hi Steve
Do you think you have realised what you wanted to when you started ?
I wanted to find a special 'peaceful' state where I was untouched by any problems/issues.
No I have not found this state. I have just realised that there is no other truth than the 'now' (which can be happy,sad, painful, cheerful etc)
Absolutely. Who is/was looking for the special state?
I think an imaginary special state was created by mind and then the mind was trying to achieve that state.
You won't know if there is a me but you will know when it's known there isn't one !!!
I think 'me' is still there. This me is living the life, not looking for a me in a special imagined state.
I am still occupied by thoughts of suffering that I am undergoing but now I am not looking for that happy state. There is an acceptance of what is.

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:03 pm

Hi Seenam,
No I have not found this state. I have just realised that there is no other truth than the 'now' (which can be happy,sad, painful, cheerful etc)
That is marvellous !
I think an imaginary special state was created by mind and then the mind was trying to achieve that state.
This mind thingy, where and what is that exactly ? Who does it belong to ?
I think 'me' is still there. This me is living the life, not looking for a me in a special imagined state.
Where is this 'me' outside of 'living the life' ? Do you need such a concept ? What sense of security does it provide?

All the best,
Steve.

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Hi Seenam,

This is kinda weird.
No I have not found this state. I have just realised that there is no other truth than the 'now' (which can be happy,sad, painful, cheerful etc)
That is full awakening - with provisos. 'Truth' ? - is there any such thing in experience?

'Now' is in quotes - I love that. Where else could 'you' be ?

Steve x

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:09 am

Hi Steve
I think an imaginary special state was created by mind and then the mind was trying to achieve that state.
This mind thingy, where and what is that exactly ? Who does it belong to ?
There is nothing like a mind, there are only thoughts. Thoughts appear from nowhere, goes nowhere. If I say mind (thoughts) projected another state (which is now not believed to be true), this means I am believing in my thoughts now. I am taking my thoughts to be true, when I know thoughts are not true.
Then what is this belief that I have? And what is 'I' ? When these questions are asked, there is a deep silence. There is no answer. Does no answer mean there is no belief and no I ? When this is asked, there is a lot of sensation in body and attention starts drifting to the outside environment ( like sound of car horn etc).
What is this attention? When this question is asked, again there is no answer. Does no answer mean there is nothing called attention? To this question, there is a weird sensation that everything is me and I am everything.
I think 'me' is still there. This me is living the life, not looking for a me in a special imagined state.
Where is this 'me' outside of 'living the life' ? Do you need such a concept ? What sense of security does it provide?
There is no me.if there is no me, what is there? There is this thing that I can't explain, can't define.
No I have not found this state. I have just realised that there is no other truth than the 'now' (which can be happy,sad, painful, cheerful etc)
That is full awakening - with provisos. 'Truth' ? - is there any such thing in experience?

'Now' is in quotes - I love that. Where else could 'you' be ?
Now, later, earlier. - they are all thoughts, projections. If they are thoughts, projections, then what is it that exists. Is ' I' dying? Yes it is dying.... after a few moments, thoughts are back but they are just there, they are not defining anything, they are not ruling the world.

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:42 pm

Hi Seema,
This is odd without wi fi but it sounds like it's all cool. Is there anyone at the heart of this experience ?
Anything at all?
Steve xx

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:06 pm

Hi Steve

There is no one at heart of the experience. However thoughts still keep coming, there is still association with thoughts. Not that there is an expectation for thoughts to go away but how can this association with thoughts be reduced in light of knowing that there is no me to whom these thoughts belong.

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:27 pm

Hi Seenam,
Thoughts become much quieter when wanting and not wanting are seen through. They can be felt as sensations an d they are what run the show. Can you feel wanting or not wanting 'behind ' thought? Does that register in the chest or belly ? Do the sensations
need thought to 'go off on one' in response ?

Steve x

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:57 am

Hi Steve

I am unable to see wanting and unwanting, rather there is a strong 'i will do this' and 'i will not do this' behind the thoughts. These will do and will not do are trying to protect the 'me' from any harm that can be caused to it.
I tried to feel the sensations behind these thoughts but couldn't feel anything - these thoughts are like the most natural thing occuring

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:38 pm

H Seenam,
there is a strong 'i will do this' and 'i will not do this' behind the thoughts. These will do and will not do are trying to protect the 'me' from any harm that can be caused to it.
That sound like a description of wanting and not wanting ! 'I will do this because I want to enhance my experience or I don't want harm'.

I was hoping that you could contact experience in the body. The body 'knows' what is going on (so to speak) but thoughts about what is going on are endless.

Right now the only thing I can recommend is to go back to the body exercises and see if the equanimity you have mentioned is in the body as a direct experience. And does that or any other body experience have an 'I' at the centre of it.

All the best ,
Steve.

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Hi Steve
Right now the only thing I can recommend is to go back to the body exercises and see if the equanimity you have mentioned is in the body as a direct experience. And does that or any other body experience have an 'I' at the centre of it.
There is no experience of an 'I' in the body. There are some sensations, but these sensations doesn't belong to anyone.

At times of stress, happiness, sadness, etc these feelings occur but they don't belong to anyone.

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:04 am

Hi Seenam,

I'm sorry for the delay but I'm in the middle of buying a house and have an old friend I haven't seen for ages staying with me.

I'm running out of questions, you seem to have got it but not got it !

Can you tell me from the heart what you are looking for now. Is anything missing?

All the best,
Steve.

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Search1207
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby Search1207 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:37 am

Hi Steve

I am not looking for anything now. There is an acceptance of now. There are still moments of worry, stress, sadness, happiness, peace, planning etc and there is an acceptance of what is.

I still fight for what is felt to be right but during the fight, 'I' is not involved. Also there is no expectation to understand everyone point of view. At times there is a feeling that why other humans doesn't understand the truth but again it doesn't matter.

Regards
Seenam

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ratnapani
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Re: Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

Postby ratnapani » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:31 pm

Hi Seenam,
I still fight for what is felt to be right but during the fight, 'I' is not involved.
'Fight and 'right' sound like what 'I' does and what 'I' holds onto.
At times there is a feeling that why other humans doesn't understand the truth but again it doesn't matter.
Do you think you do 'understand the truth'. Can you describe the point at which you saw through the illusion ?

You make a thousand decisions a day. Please observe exactly what is going on with each one. (as much as goes with road safety.)

All the best,
Steve.


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