Awakent

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Seamist
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Location: Shropshire

Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:17 am

Hi Abner
That's helpful to hear.
Ilona has written quite a bit that you might find helpful on her blog - have you come across it?
file:///C:/Users/User/Desktop/Marked,%20Eternal_%20Start%20Here.html

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Seamist
Posts: 1933
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:23 am

That didn't seem to post right - sorry about that. So... it's called "Marked Eternal", and I'm trying agagin now
http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/p/start-here.html
That looks better! See if you find it useful.

When you're ready, try this next exercise, which explores identification with being the ‘doer’. The sense that it ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.
Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:52 am

have you come across it?
Yes...having a voracious tendency to read
everything, I came across it by looking at everything on the LU site. I really didnt get
a chance to read it because I was told not
to read anything (outside of my posts and responses)...other peoples posts etc.
by my previous guide.
I did read gatless gate crashers and I downloaded
the LU app. Found many LU audios, and some videos featuring Ilona.

Thank you for putting it in front of me again.

Will now look at todays exercise.
Will get back to you tomorrow.

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:53 am

ok
xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:06 pm

Im getting back to you now because the exercise
was not time consuming and did not require
a lengthy thought process although there was
reflecting required.

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?
No
The question is; can you turn seeing off?
No

Can you NOT see what is seen?
No
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
No...it all happens automatically, without a "me"
doing it.
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
No
Can you turn off seeing?
No
What did the 'chooser' choose?
There was no chooser

Did a 'self' choose something?
No

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
Heres where the problem lies..you tols me to
look to the left...so l looked to the left, not to
the right...wasnt that a choice?
Maybe it was a choice, by no one...but Im a
little stuck...sorry!

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:09 pm

That's good, Abner (apart from the bit of over-thinking at the end).
Keep going!

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:53 am

Your not going to like the answers. I couldnt
relate, to this exercise, at all.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
Yes there is pressure present, yes there
is a story about a head...but it still feels
like my head, no matter how many times
I do it.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
It sure feels like a head, pressure, & finger
is found.
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
I feel nothing between the pressure points.
Only finger/ head

Note: A head isnt found...only sensations and
pressure...if I am only considering point of
contact.

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:56 am

Your not going to like the answers. I couldnt
relate, to this exercise, at all.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
Yes there is pressure present, yes there
is a story about a head...but it still feels
like my head, no matter how many times
I do it.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
It sure feels like a head, pressure, & finger
is found.
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
I feel nothing between the pressure points.
Only finger/ head

Note: A head isnt found...only sensations and
pressure...if I am only considering point of
contact.

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:59 am

Sory for repeat post.

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Seamist
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Location: Shropshire

Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:04 am

HI Abner
Your not going to like the answers. I couldnt
relate, to this exercise, at all
you say that, but it seems to me that you did pretty well with it!
: A head isnt found...only sensations and
pressure...if I am only considering point of
contact.
exactly - if you stay with direct experience, there is only pressure and sensation.
Do you agree?

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:37 pm

Do you agree?
Yes...I agree

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:06 am

Good. Everything else is inferred - that is, it's not direct experience.
Can I just check that you agree again?

And then move on to:
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:39 am

Can I just check that you agree again?
Yes I agree

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:48 am

Can it be known how tall the body is?
No
Does the body have a weight or volume?
No volume, but can feel weight by pressure
on chair.
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
No
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No, the body is one with the chair.
Is there an inside or an outside?
No
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
It is just a thought, that refers to a physical
body
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Im not sure. Maybe I dont understand the
question.

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Seamist
Posts: 1933
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire

Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:18 am

Great Abner, excellent in fact!
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Im not sure. Maybe I dont understand the
question.
What is the actual experience? If you ignore what you think you already know and just look at what's there in direct experience. Is there anything more than the sensation of pressure where the body meets the chair?
xxx


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