Awakent

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:09 am

Hi, Sioned

Absolutely no

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:55 pm

ok, and...
Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?
xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:20 am

Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise?
No
Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?
No

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:23 am

ok
so,
Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?
xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 am

Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?
No

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:31 pm

Go to another room, pick a random object and bring it back to the computer. Why and how did you decide to choose that object.
x

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:15 pm

Why and how did you decide to choose that object.
I had a problem with this exercise.
When I read the post a "thought" poped into
my head immediatly (toaster) but I was not in
the kitchen.
When I came to the kitchen I chose the
blender without thinking.
Dont know if this makes any sense.

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:48 am

Yes, makes sense. A decision was somehow made but no chooser or decider can be found - would you agree?

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold the focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

xx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:42 am

Do you move it?
No

Or it moves by itself?
Moves by itself
Hold the focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
No
What moves attention?
Thoughts...not me
Is thinking in control of attention?
It sometimes appears that way, while other
times it does not
Describe what you see.
Because of this exercise, for the 1st time, I got a glimpse/taste of the
fact that I am not the thinker.

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:34 am

That all sounds good, Abner.
I'm copying you a bit from Ilona's blog as I think it will be helpful at this point:
I is a thought. Thought does not think.

Opposite to what we have been fed since childhood, I is not a soul or a being, I is a thought. It is not a being, it is just a label. Being is a verb, not a thing.

I think therefore I am- a famous statement proposed by René Descartes. The simple meaning of the phrase is that someone wondering whether or not he exists is, in and of itself, proof that he does exist – at the very least, there must be an "I" who does the thinking.

But let’s not believe what somebody else says and test it.

Close your eyes after reading this paragraph and find that which is always present. Feelings of aliveness, aware being-ness, ‘I am’ stay with the feeling. Is it personal? It feels personal because for all those years you thought that you exist as a separate being. It’s a sense plus labeling of the mind as “me”.

Look at thoughts:

Where do they come from?
Can you control them?
What influences thoughts?
Do you know what your next though is going to be?
Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
What do you know for sure?

Answer these questions for yourself, notice the thinking process. How do thoughts come, in bundles or one after another, one at a time?

Notice that thoughts come and go by themselves. They are just thoughts, like clouds in the sky. And there is nothing that controls them, they roll one after another and there is no way to stop or get rid of them. Like a river that is running freely.

Look at mind as labeling machine. Experience happens, labelling follows. Noticing, observation, witnessing happens, labels pop right after.

This article on language and how it works may be of use at this point.


Let me know how you get on with it xxx

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:35 am

Looks like the link to the article hasn't worked.
I'll copy it on to you when you're ready x

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:21 am

. Is it personal?
It sure feels personal



Where do they come from?
I dont know where thoughts come from.
They seem to just come from nowhere.

Can you control them?
No
What influences thoughts?
Most just show up but some appear to be
following a linear streem...telling a story.

Do you know what your next though is going to be?
No
Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
No, the hole thought appears...if it is not
good you may "try" to stop the next one...
but then again, who is trying?
What do you know for sure?

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 am

What do you know for sure?
What I know for sure, is that I dont know
what my next thought will be.

Thank you for staying with me.
I know that you get nothing out of this, and
for that, I am so very greatful.
Be well..Abner

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Seamist
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Re: Awakent

Postby Seamist » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:44 pm

Hi Abner
Your answers are lovely to read! They made me smile.

Here's the article now, give it a read and let me know how you get on with it.
When we learn to say our first words, parents are so happy. We learn fast and start to communicate what we want. We learn to say I, mine, me and we understand that these are very important words as using them we get what we want. It's my toy, my mum, I want this, I do that.

Our thoughts appear as words, strings of words, joined into sentences. Words tell a story. The most important story is the one about me.

Because of the way language is constructed, we have labels for objects and we have labels for actions. Every word is a pointer to something, be it practical things or imaginary stuff, but words themselves are only labels. Like house, car, woman, cat, thought, feeling, sun, etc. Nouns are pointing to objects, ideas, something that is solid. There is no movement in solid things, so we learn.

When we express some action through words, there is always an assumed doer of action: I breathe, I walk, I watch TV, I hear a sound, you listen to the music, we are having dinner, a car is passing by. There is always someone/ something there that is doing something. But when we look up close and try to find that doer, it's nowhere to be found, it's only a construct of language, a word I assumed for a real entity/doer.

If language was constructed just from verbs, the world would feel quite different: Breathing, typing, looking around, hearing the music, talking to a friend, walking, eating... All the action could be expressed without a subject and it would still be pointing to the same action. If word I is dropped, nothing changes.

I breathe -- breathing is happening. See, there is no breather I. There is just pure action. And because of language we get confused and assume an identity. Word I becomes the centerpoint of life, one that needs to be protected, defended, and looked after. Great. But it's only a label, that points to nothing that can be perceived by senses.

Ilona is typing this. I am typing this. Typing is happening. It can be expressed through different words, but the action itself does not depend on how it's labelled. Instead of using word Ilona to point to this body, it's agreed to use word I, it's convenient in a conversation with you. But neither Ilona, nor I is doing the typing. Typing is happening effortlessly as next thought comes up.


Life is going on by itself, without a doer, manager, observer, chooser, witness that is somehow outside of what is happening. There is this illusion, that I/ me is here, but it's only words that point to story about I/me, no such thing as me exists.

Language is a tool. Somehow humans became victims of it through assumption of separate entity. This identity I/me only creates misery and unnecessary suffering. It's a cosmic joke. Humans not only learned to speak but also learned to never question this identity, as everyone around are trapped in the same soft prison of words.

What is here in between the thoughts? Just this- raw sensations, feelings, perception. Being- as in verb. And thoughts tell a story about this, where I is the main character and you are separate from me.

Try to find that I that is making stuff happen. The funny side is that's it's not even hidden, it's in plain sight and with a little bit of curious investigation, it's clear, that me lives in imaginary wold, only in stories about me. When story is taken seriously, all kind of drama spins out. At this point, just remember, whatever story is being told, it's fiction. Life goes on regardless what words are used by the mind to describe it.

xxxx

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Abner
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Re: Awakent

Postby Abner » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:29 am

I enjoyed the article. At first, when I looked
at the size of it, before reading it, it looked
like a lot. When reading it, trying to internalize
everthing, it still passed very quickly. I see
how we label everything. In this case, texting
is happenning...as oposed to I am texting.
This is someting that I have known for quite a while, intelectually only of course. After reading the whole
article, I feel that I have come a bit closer to
seeing this truth but feel that rereading this,
and other pointers/articles along the same lines would be greatly beneficial.

Be well...Abner


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