Synelg

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Vivien
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Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:42 am

The sound is still being heard 'over there' in thought, but FROM? Not in my ears, not in my head, not in the air around me. I don't know! It's just being heard! Oh.
With that distant sound, WHERE is the experience of hearing happening?

Is the sound somehow 'separate' from the hearing of it?
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:14 am

With that distant sound, WHERE is the experience of hearing happening?

Thoughts say hearing is happening 'over there'. Without thoughts hearing is just happening.
Is the sound somehow 'separate' from the hearing of it?
Absolutely not. The sound and the hearing of it can't be separated. I actually tried.

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Vivien
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Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:33 am

Absolutely not. The sound and the hearing of it can't be separated. I actually tried.
Great! Now let’s try this with seeing.

Please look at the display before you.
Now, could you tell me where you are looking at it FROM?
WHAT is there? Is there a ‘me’ in that direction? What do you find there?
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:14 am

Please look at the display before you.
Now, could you tell me where you are looking at it FROM?
WHAT is there? Is there a ‘me’ in that direction? What do you find there?
Where are you looking at the display from? . . . visual thought and sensation say that I'm looking at it from the back of the nose (snort). . . . . . . Without thoughts I have no idea where I'm looking at it from. . . . . there's just sensation, and visual thoughts. . . behind my nose. Which is a stupid place to see from lol. Am I looking from my eyes? Thoughts say so. . . . . . . And a visual thought says its from the back of the nose again lol. . . . . verbal thoughts now SHOUT at me that it's from my eyes. . . . . . .Where am I looking from? . . . looking everywhere in the body – there are just sensations - a sensation can't 'look' at the display – a visual THOUGHT cannot look at the display – I have no idea where I'm looking from. What is there? Just sensations, just visual thoughts. The only 'me' I can find is in thoughts. The only things I can find are visual thoughts and sensations. The 'I' only exists in thought. I can only find 'I' in thoughts. The 'I' is created by thoughts. oh

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Vivien
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Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

verbal thoughts now SHOUT at me that it's from my eyes
Thoughts shouting at you? LOOK. Where is this you that thoughts are shouting at?

Please don’t just say that there is no-me, or that this was just a thought, but rather search for the ‘me’ that thoughts are supposedly shouting at.

Look at whatever is in front of you.

How is it known that the eyes see?
Focus on the sensation labelled ‘eyes’. Is this sensation doing the seeing?
What is actually known right now about eyes, except thought about them?

Can you find anything behind the eyes that is seeing?
Is there anything that is seeing?
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:52 am

Thoughts shouting at you? LOOK. Where is this you that thoughts are shouting at?
Where is this you that thoughts are shouting at . . . . . . . can't find a 'me' I can hear sounds Where is this 'I' that can hear sounds? . . I can't find an 'I', there are sensations and visual thoughts . . where is this 'I' that thoughts were shouting at? Looking through the body there are sensations and visual thoughts . . . . where is this 'I' that can hear sounds? There are just sensations and visual thoughts . . . sound . … sensation . . . where is this 'I', is there someone hearing this sound, where is the hearer? Sensation, visual thought where is this 'I' that thoughts were shouting at, this me? . . sensations and visual thoughts pointing to where the sensations appear to be . . . where is this me that thoughts were shouting at? . . . there are only sensations and visual thoughts . . a visual picture of the body . .
Look at whatever is in front of you.

How is it known that the eyes see?
There's a sensation and visual image of eyes and area around eyes and forehead and sensations there. It is not known that the eyes see except in thought.
Focus on the sensation labelled ‘eyes’. Is this sensation doing the seeing?
. . . . no – it's just a sensation – sensations cannot see – there's nothing about the sensation that suggests it can see, it's just a sensation
What is actually known right now about eyes, except thought about them?
there's a visual image about eyes and forehead . . . and there's sensations . . and that's it, that's all that's known about them.

Can you find anything behind the eyes that is seeing?
. . there's a sensation behind the eyes, there's a sensation behind the eyes, a sensation cannot see, it's just a sensation . . there's nothing behind the eyes that is seeing . .
Is there anything that is seeing?
is there anything that is seeing? Visual thoughts of the eyes, visual thoughts of trees, visual thoughts of fridge, visual thoughts of cat. Opened my eyes . . is there anything that is seeing? . visual thoughts of the eyes, sensation there . . nothing to indicate that the sensation can see . . . there's just sensation of the eyes . . . . and there's what's seen . . . . is there anything that is seeing? . . visual thought and sensation of the eyes . . nothing except thought suggests anything that is seeing . . . . is there anything that is seeing? Thoughts say the eyes are seeing . . . is there anything that is seeing? . . only thoughts say that the eyes are seeing.

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Vivien
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Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:29 am

OK Synelg, you shared with me how you did the looking.

Please reply to the above questions again, but now not share the result, not the process.
What you wrote leaves loopholes for doubts. You have to be certain with your replies.
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:48 am

Thoughts shouting at you? LOOK. Where is this you that thoughts are shouting at?
I cannot find a me that the thoughts are shouting at. 'Me' exists only in thoughts.
How is it known that the eyes see?
It is not known that the eyes can see. Only thought says that
Focus on the sensation labelled ‘eyes’. Is this sensation doing the seeing?
No. The sensation labelled eyes is not doing the seeing. A sensation cannot see.
What is actually known right now about eyes, except thought about them?
Nothing is known outside thought about eyes. Just visual thought and sensation
Can you find anything behind the eyes that is seeing?
No, just visual thoughts and sensations
Is there anything that is seeing?
No. Only visual thoughts and sensations suggest something that is seeing

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Vivien
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Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:59 am

V: Is there anything that is seeing?
S: No. Only visual thoughts and sensations suggest something that is seeing
How does a sensation suggest that there is something that is seeing?

And how a visual thought suggests it?
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:16 am

How does a sensation suggest that there is something that is seeing?
And how a visual thought suggests it?
It can't of course. When I ask 'is there something that is seeing?', what comes up are visual thoughts and sensations. So then I 'thought' that that meant those thoughts and sensations were 'suggesting'. I can see that I thought instead of looking. I will look again.
Is there anything that is seeing?
I cannot find anything that is seeing. I can only find sensations and visual thoughts.

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:26 am

It can't of course. When I ask 'is there something that is seeing?', what comes up are visual thoughts and sensations. So then I 'thought' that that meant those thoughts and sensations were 'suggesting'. I can see that I thought instead of looking. I will look again.
Do you see that sensations and visual/pictorial thoughts cannot suggest anything, only other thoughts interpret and label those images and sensations?

Now I would like to repeat the same with smell and taste. Eat or drink something, and let me know what you find.
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:01 am

Do you see that sensations and visual/pictorial thoughts cannot suggest anything, only other thoughts interpret and label those images and sensations?
Yes I see. And I will think about this and look some more to make sure I understand.
Now I would like to repeat the same with smell and taste. Eat or drink something, and let me know what you find.
Smelling prunes. They smell sweet.
I went through the list of questions you asked about seeing, substituting nose and mouth for eyes
There is no 'me' smelling, without thoughts and sensations there is no mouth, no nose. There are just sensations of breath, visual thoughts of nose and mouth. Without thoughts there was just smelling, just tasting.

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:03 am

Oh, and I saw clearly several times that 'sensations and visual/pictorial thoughts cannot suggest anything, only other thoughts interpret and label those images and sensations?' Thank you for that.

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Synelg
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Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:34 am

Going to bed Vivien. Much much gratitude for all the time you've spent with me today. much love. XX

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:28 pm

Hi Synelg,
Much much gratitude for all the time you've spent with me today
You are very welcome :) Today I won’t be able to reply in the afternoon (I think I am 2 hours behind you).

Is the seeing separate from the seen? Are these two things?

Is tasting separate from taste? Are these two things?

Is smelling separate from smell? Is there smelling + smell? Or just smelling? Or just smell?


Please actually taste and smell something when you look.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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