Looking for some help please

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:03 pm

Ps
Is there anyone behind the eyes, a watcher, observer?
If there is a watcher/observer it isn't sitting behind the eyes. But so feels like it is! The watcher/observer is everywhere.

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BeHereNow
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby BeHereNow » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Hi Lynne,

I hope you are having a great day!

You are less confused than you think ;-)

Let's take a look at these:
No separate entity that sees or hears. However surely something is experiencing? Consciousness?
Your Looking is great. There is no separate entity that sees or hears. The second piece about something experiencing and what that is, is all thought.
I don't know. I don't know if there is an experiencer (that isn't i/me/myself) or if thats just a label. So until I know whether there is an experiencer and what it is I can't answer the question. Sorry I'm confused.
Let's go back to what you Actual Experience - look, see, feel, hear, thought.

Take a sip of water.
Is there an experiencer in AE? Or is it just one of the 5 elements above?

As an entity that you can point to, no. But something must be experiencing?
Again, you are right on. There is no entity that you can point to as an "experiencer". The second part, about something "must" be experiencing, is all thought!
If there is a watcher/observer it isn't sitting behind the eyes. But so feels like it is! The watcher/observer is everywhere.
If that is the case, is it a watcher / observer or just a sensation? What is it in Actual Experience?
No they are the same thing. But my mind is telling me this I haven't found it from looking. I've read a lot before we started the process and so my concern is that I'm "cheating" - like being asked to read a line of letters in an eyesight test when you already know what the letters are.
I get this :-) Thank you for your honesty! Remember this is all for you, so that you can have your own experience of what is real. When you think this, it is a thought. What else is there at the time, in Actual Experience? Look deeply.
Still confused Paula!
Are you really? Or is this just another thought? What is confusing in Actual Experience? Is there an expectation there? Doubt?

I will give you some more exercises on the next post to clarify your Seeing further.

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BeHereNow
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby BeHereNow » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:12 pm

Here is another exercise you can try:

Although you see that there is no noticer/observer/witness, there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’. So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


And one more:

Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit.

Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.

Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where "Lynne" is located.
Touch the exact location of "Lynne".

Were you able to find and feel "Lynne" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Lynne”?


Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

Looking forward to your answers, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:58 pm

Hi Paula
Love the way you're encouraging me! You are a great teacher/guide. Thank you again...
Take a sip of water.
Is there an experiencer in AE? Or is it just one of the 5 elements above?
It's all actual experience. See glass, lift glass, feel glass touch lips, sip water, feel swallowing reflex, hear glug...etc (thoughts are optional :))
If that is the case, is it a watcher / observer or just a sensation? What is it in Actual Experience?
Of course! It's just a sensation of watching/ observing!
Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?.....
No they are the same thing. But my mind is telling me this I haven't found it from looking. I've read a lot before we started the process and so my concern is that I'm "cheating" - like being asked to read a line of letters in an eyesight test when you already know what the letters are.
When you think this, it is a thought.
Which bit...that experienced and experienced are the same or feeling like I'm cheating?!
What else is there at the time, in Actual Experience? Look deeply
.
So the experienced is just actual experience. And the experiencer is just a sensation of experiencing.
E.g. seeing - the actual experience is what is seen. But at the same time there's the sensation of being the seer. Different elements of the set of "actual experience".
Are you really? Or is this just another thought? What is confusing in Actual Experience? Is there an expectation there? Doubt?
Just that some things I can see clearly, others turn mind to treacle! But yes, just thoughts...and self doubt etc.
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
I can't turn seeing off. No choice was made. Seeing happens without choice. All choices are "made for me" (mind you that would infer there is someone else choosing for me). There is no chooser and nothing to choose, just a sensation of choosing ( e.g. tea or coffee).
Now point your index finger to where "Lynne" is located.
Touch the exact location of "Lynne".
I pointed at my chest. In a sort of generic "the supermarkets that way" kind of way. But i know Lynne is just a label. And I can't touch the exact location of Lynne.
Were you able to find and feel "Lynne" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
No. With other parts of my body I could sense the part being touched as well as the sense of touching (hmmm - interesting - toucher and touched both experienced at the same time, simultaneously).
Where is it?
Lynne is nowhere to be found, Lynne is a label.
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Lynne”?
I felt sensations in the body that identified "face", "foot", "leg" etc but nothing that identified "Lynne". "Lynne" is just a collective noun for the sum of body parts. So I found "foot of Lynne" but I didn't find Lynne.

Thank you Paula

Lynne

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BeHereNow
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby BeHereNow » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:33 pm

Hi Lynne,

I am so glad you are enjoying the process! It is my pleasure. It is wonderful to see you finding greater and greater clarity, it is a gift for me as well.
Which bit...that experienced and experienced are the same or feeling like I'm cheating?!
I meant the cheating part, but we can check out both in AE and see what is true!

Look at the Experienced - say a glass of water. What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?

Look at the Experiencer - What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?


Now look at the feeling that you are cheating - What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
So the experienced is just actual experience. And the experiencer is just a sensation of experiencing.
What is the "sensation of experiencing" in AE? Colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?

Great looking overall!

Here are a few additional questions for you to strengthen what you are already seeing:

When you look at what is looking, what is there?

Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?

Do you have anything to add about this investigation?


Looking forward to hearing how these go, Lynne!

I will be offline until Tuesday. Until then, please continue Looking deeply into every activity, and if possible take a few minutes each day to observe thought. Pay particular attention to sensation in the body. When there is a thought, what is the sensation? This will deepen your experience of going beyond the "self".

Here is another thought exercise for the observations:

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Have a beautiful weekend, Lynne!

Warm wishes,
Paula

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:14 am

Hi Paula..

Hope you had a great weekend :)

Part One....
Look at the Experienced - say a glass of water. What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
Colourless glass, colourless liquid
Distorted images seen through glass
Feels solid and heavy in the hand
Tastes soft and sweet
Sensation of liquid touching lips then mouth then throat
Odourless
Thought - I can see bubbles, the glass of water has been sitting here for a while
Look at the Experiencer - What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
No actual experience - except for a thought that someone or something must be receiving or having the experience
Now look at the feeling that you are cheating - What do you see in colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
Have I heard this before? - thought
I'm not sure - thought
I'm confused - thought
No actual experience, just thought
So the experienced is just actual experience. And the experiencer is just a sensation of experiencing.
What is the "sensation of experiencing" in AE? Colour, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
When you boil it down to this it's just a thought - the same thought - that someone or something must be receiving or having the experience

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:51 am

Part Two
When you look at what is looking, what is there?
Looking seems to be shining the light of awareness onto what is already happening effortlessly. However - it changes the experience from an unconscious experience to a conscious experience. So instead of eg being caught up in daydreaming there is present moment experience/awareness in the now. (sometimes :) )
But in terms of WHAT is looking, it can only be consciousness itself because there is no experiencer, no breather and therefore there can be no "looker" in that sense.
Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?
Only the uniquely identifiable human bodies that are on the planet...yes I can see the "identities" are stories and the "names" are labels, however there is life being lived, and experience being experienced through human bodies. The human body seems to be a conduit for consciousness to experience its environment. And bodies are not created equal - different brain capacity etc - so Tesler and Einstein for example - they say they were ahead of their time because they derived their knowledge directly from the Universe itself ... but why these individuals and not Mrs Brown living 4 doors down the street? I suppose it doesn't matter it's just his-story
When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?
Life living itself. Being. "What is always here" - that feeling of peace, spaciousness
Do you have anything to add about this investigation?
If we can't control thoughts etc, we can become a clear conduit for thought...direct from source...this is where meditation comes in, clearing the mind, so that we create a blank canvas for instruction from the Divine.
And hence why it is important to deal with our "stuff", have positive influences in our life etc. And also why our world is the way it is because people are programmed/conditioned by TV (and the violence shown on it) music of dissonant frequencies, mainstream media, dysfunctional relationships, poor diet etc etc etc all dumbing us down.
The clearer our channel, the more we can live a life of flow, like a river navigating rocks in a stream. Answers will come, just the way thoughts come. While the mind is cluttered there can never be clarity. Being still enough to hear the quiet inner voice (though it's probably not "inner" at all - just a thought arriving)

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:42 pm

Part Three
Where are they coming from and going to?
Thoughts come from nowhere and vanish into thin air
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
No, although often recognise why thoughts arose (e.g. watched a film, something happened etc) so thoughts can definitely be influenced
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
No
Can you predict your next thought?
Definitely not
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
No
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
No
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?
No organised sequence. Thought arrives which may or may not be chained to another thought and loop repeats. I know the link between thoughts - ie why one thought has caused another one to arise - but the link often appears random to others. And i notice the link after the event - ie thoughts have already appeared of their own accord.

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:06 am

Part Four
Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?
Perhaps answering my own question, perhaps we all have the capacity to be Einstein once we clear our mind and connect with source.

My doubts remain in the sense of .... If one consciousness is experiencing life through all humans where does the soul fit in? Where do past lives fit in? There is a human life to lead, "my" thoughts are not "your" thoughts (though I see that if "individuals" stopped being distracted by their dramas, humans could operate as do the murmurations of birds - connected with one intention).

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:58 pm

Part Five (last one!)
take a few minutes each day to observe thought. Pay particular attention to sensation in the body. When there is a thought, what is the sensation?
I've noticed tension in the body when thinking. Presence and amount of tension depends on what is being thought...may be due to excitement or concern or whatever. Tension recognised, thought stops for a while. Not sure if in this order or reversed.

Thanks Paula, you will have a lot to delve through but just trying to post a bit each day.

Best wishes Lynne

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BeHereNow
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby BeHereNow » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:10 pm

Hi Lynne,

Thank you for all your insightful and thorough posts.
Only the uniquely identifiable human bodies that are on the planet...yes I can see the "identities" are stories and the "names" are labels, however there is life being lived, and experience being experienced through human bodies.
Yes this is all happening! There are big and small trees, unique flowers that bloom on their own time, and human beings that express themselves in whatever way is called for... there are different expressions of life, all beautiful and part of a greater whole.
Life living itself. Being. "What is always here" - that feeling of peace, spaciousness
Exactly.
perhaps we all have the capacity to be Einstein once we clear our mind and connect with source.
Would a flower be able to become a lion if she connects with source?
My doubts remain in the sense of .... If one consciousness is experiencing life through all humans where does the soul fit in? Where do past lives fit in? There is a human life to lead, "my" thoughts are not "your" thoughts (though I see that if "individuals" stopped being distracted by their dramas, humans could operate as do the murmurations of birds - connected with one intention).
Lots of thoughts here! Can you connect to each one and Look deeply? What is really there in AE? The intellect wants to try to find answers to all sorts of things, but we can only know what we can experience directly. All kinds of doubts and stories and trying to make sense of things will come, even after we have passed the Gate. The key is to notice when thinking is here and when we have moved away from AE. And we start again. What is here in sight, sound, taste, sensation and thought?
I've noticed tension in the body when thinking. Presence and amount of tension depends on what is being thought...may be due to excitement or concern or whatever. Tension recognised, thought stops for a while. Not sure if in this order or reversed.
YES! Very good Looking. There is thought and there is tension in the body. It is a continuous loop - thought creates tension, tension creates thought. Noticing this, allowing for it, focusing on sensations is a big part of life after the Gate. We see through but there is so much that continues, we just observe with kindness and self-compassion.

I believe you are ready for the final questions! I will send them to you in a separate thread.

After that, I will have other guides read this and see if there are any further questions.

Cheers,
Paula

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BeHereNow
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby BeHereNow » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:12 pm

Hi Lynne,

Here are your final questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Looking forward to your answers!

Warm wishes,
Paula

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Lindylou
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Re: Looking for some help please

Postby Lindylou » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:37 pm

Hi Paula

How exciting!!! (Just a thought ;-) )
Would a flower be able to become a lion if she connects with source?
Good point. And a daffodil can never be a rose. And a rose will be similar to all other roses but each rose will be unique.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. Self, me, I are all labels. There has never been a separate entity "self/me/I".
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
A baby comes into the world experiencing, with no sense of self, just as an animal has no sense of self. And then it is taught through language "I am Lynne", this is "mine", "I" am happy/sad..., "my" Mum, "my" Dad , "our" house. This is useful to enable us to communicate, but gives "us" the belief that we are controlling our lives, separately from everyone else. Every time the self/me/I label is used, it reinforces the need to compare "ourselves" with others, some with inflated image of self (I am better than others) or need to achieve goals to prove this to "oneself" or poor self image (I'm not good enough). All of this is distraction from the fact that everything is one - nothing is separate - and fosters division and hate rather than unity and love. "We" live in our own little worlds, unconsciously wrapped up in the latest drama, instead of seeing that life is just happening, that everything is simply experience, doing fine without "us".
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels ok - and peaceful. Life is actually very simple. Initially when I thought of there being no self, a lot of tears came, i couldn't see the point of life. Now I think (forgive the "I" terminology and yes it's just a thought) that by keeping the channel (of thought) as clear as possible and being present in the now then life can flow with intention and purpose in a more conscious way, with greater richness and who knows, perhaps even more meaning than before. And certainly with a more conscious connection to all living things.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I don't know about being the "last bit," but....

With absolute certainty I knew I couldn't choose my next thought so realised I wasn't in control.

Breaking down experience to see it was just a chain of thought + experience was a lightbulb moment

Looking in kitchen - seeing how selective thoughts and memories are - realising it's just perception and (following goldfish example) that thoughts are not real

Hands exercise - this was major! Seeing that it just happened, a set of instructions were just being followed

Looking at wall - can't turn seeing off
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision/Choice
seem to operate the same way. An event may occur, or instructions received, or sensation in the body, prompting something to be done. Thought may then come in (or may not) with a range of possible options, each of which is evaluated/processed (or not) by the brain with lots of thought. Sometimes there may be sensations in for example the gut. All these thoughts and sensations just occur without control, management or assistance, although thought may arise that the person is managing (while under illusion of separate self).
Thought loops in a circular fashion until eventually a decision/choice is made.
Intention
"I" can set a positive intention. But consciousness is actually setting it, not "me".

So..."I'm going to set a positive intention for my yoga practice" - thought
"Today I nourish and honour my body" - thought

Intention is just more thought, although it is conscious thought rather than unconscious thought - ie there is awareness of what the thoughts are rather than unconscious daydreaming.
Free will
Whilst it appears there is free will, there isn't! If "I" can't control thought, "i" cant control life, decisions "we" appear to be making are being made for "us" or through "us". Eeek no free will. Sounds worse than no control! - just a thought. However, there is freedom in having no free will...paradoxically!
Control
I'm not in control and never have been. This knowledge would have saved a lot of heartache!!! You cant control your environment or other people. The joke is you cant control yourself either! Trying to control is resistance to what is. Pointless and futile because it cant be done.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
Nothing! They just happen! Humans are just following instructions...being used as a conduit for experience...and thought....stuff happens which leads to thought, reaction, action.....which leads to more stuff happening leading to thought, reaction, action.
E.g. I receive an email asking me to fill in a Questionnaire so i fill it in and send it back by the due date. The person receiving it will do their admin bit at their end. And in 6 months time - something may or may not happen as a result. Or I give someone a picture, they buy me a bunch of flowers as a thank you.
What are you responsible for?
Interesting. Before this process I would have said my thoughts and actions. Now...allowing life to flow, living and loving with integrity, living life as consciously as possible. Because the experience is enriched from a conscious perspective, rather than living in a dream state. It's like in one we're switched on, and the other switched off. However...not being in control/having free will does seem to give us carte blanche to do or not do anything and not have to face the consequences??
6) Anything to add?
Wondering "what next?" As this is obviously just the start. However I guess I don't need to worry about that as it will all take care of itself ;-)

Thank you Paula

Lynne


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