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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:34 am

Good. (Don't get caught up in what an actor might do, though!)

Here's another 2 short ones:
1.Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?
2.Go to another room, pick a random object and bring it back to the computer. Ask questions to why they decided to choose that object.

xx

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:37 am

That second question should read:
Go to another room, pick a random object and bring it back to the computer. Why and how did you decide to choose that object.
xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:41 am

.Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?
The number just popped in my mind. No choice made. Did not know the number until it appeared.
Go to another room, pick a random object and bring it back to the computer. Why and how did you decide to choose that object.
there were so many little items to choose from. different things caught my attention. no idea why or how i decided on what object to choose. it is completely unknown to my conscious awareness.

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:14 pm

Hi Kerry
Fab noticing, well done.

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:13 am

Hi Sioned,
Do you move it? Or it moves by itself?
The attention just seems to bounce around to the different senses. I don't move it, it just moves by itself.
Hold focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
I can hold the focus on the sensations of the breath moving in and out of my nostrils, but my attention still moves to other things. I have to bring it back to the breath after it moves. I cannot control the attention moving. I can't say what moves attention. It just seems to live on its own. Thinking doesn't seem to control it. I can focus my attention on a certain object for awhile, but that focus isn't thinking.

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:50 pm

Hi Kerry
The attention just seems to bounce around to the different senses. I don't move it, it just moves by itself
just so
I cannot control the attention moving. I can't say what moves attention. It just seems to live on its own. Thinking doesn't seem to control it. I can focus my attention on a certain object for awhile, but that focus isn't thinking.
great

There may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’. So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.
Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.
Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:26 pm

The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
I can't turn off seeing or NOT see something. There is no chooser. I can't choose what I am aware of so ultimately there is nothing to choose. This brings be back to thoughts arising and how one wins out over the other which leads one to believing a choice was made. The noun claims the verb. This needs to sink in I feel.

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:31 pm

Hi
Good
This needs to sink in I feel.
ok, so...some space now? or another exercise?

You're doing really well - do you feel that yourself?
xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:23 am

Hi Sioned,

Another exercise is fine. The question, "If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?", is quite powerful and I thought if I thought about it more, maybe it would have more of an experiential impact, but thinking is not going to get me there. ;)

Thanks
Kerry

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:56 pm

Hi Kerry
thinking is not going to get me there
you are absolutely right!
Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:54 pm

Hi Sioned,
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
It is just the sensations and a story.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
Just the same sensations.
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
There is not anything in direct experience. There is just a thought saying something must be between the two points.

Thank you
Kerry

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:43 am

That's great, Kerry
Next...
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:53 am

Hi Sioned,
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
I cannot know how tall the body is, the weight or volume or the shape and form with pure sensations.
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
I just feel different sensations from the clothing and chair on the body. There is no defined border. With no thought or mental images, all I know are different sensations throughout different parts of my body.
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
I can feel sensations in certain spots inside my body. I couldn't say there is inside or inside something based on the pure sensations. I couldn't even say there is an outside, the sensations are just felt as my being. No location.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
The label just refers to a thought/image/concept in the mind.
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
It is just various sensations going on all over the place. No one sensation defines any one thing. They come and go and change all the time.

Thanks for all your patience.

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Seamist
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Re: Newbie

Postby Seamist » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:50 pm

Lovely looking, Kerry
Try this next:
Please find a quiet place and a quiet time.
Sit or lay down and relax. Close your eyes and relax.
Can you attend to sensation exclusively?
Not minding thought babbling about this and that?
Not minding thought labelling sensation for a bit?
Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here".
But could this be known from pure sensation?
Thought might suggest: "There is a soft pressure against the back".
But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?
Once arrived there, while ONLY attending to sensation, please have a look at the following questions:
Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

xx

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KDJ
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Re: Newbie

Postby KDJ » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:54 am

Hi Sioned,
Can you attend to sensation exclusively?
Not minding thought babbling about this and that?
Not minding thought labelling sensation for a bit?
I can attend to exclusively to the sensation for a bit not minding thought, but it does pops its way back in here and there.
Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here".
But could this be known from pure sensation?
Without thought, nothing can be known except pure sensation.
Thought might suggest: "There is a soft pressure against the back".
But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?
All that is known is pure sensation and without thought nothing can be known. Just strange sensations in different areas of space.
Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?
None of those things are known. I have sensations in different areas and the mind puts a shape, size, etc., to all of it with labels, but pure sensations tell you nothing of that.

Thanks
Kerry


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