Awakening

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Skygazer74
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Awakening

Postby Skygazer74 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:45 am

Hi Geoff,

Well at this stage it is really down to you - do you feel like you are ready for the final questions?
There was a funny response that arose in answer to your question about guides verifying if there the illusion has been seen through, "Oh gee, I hope I pass!). There it is!! The irony of a selfing response to whether the illusion has been seen through is too much!
The habits of thought might not immediately completely change - there is a lot of conditioning, and language and tradition insist we refer to ourselves as selves.
But what you have been pointing me to since day one is that this is simply not true in direct experience. It's only the conditioned mind. I'm beginning to see this. I wouldn't say im abiding in this understanding yet. Yesterday it was shocking to think about how many waking hours of thougth and emotion that have arose in around something that never actually existed. (a me!) Then five minutes later identification is in full effect. One thing is for sure. The identification is thinning!
I know you mentioned you don't feel like you are abiding in the understanding yet - how do you feel now after the weekend? It is absurd isn't it, once you see it, it can feel like the most grotesque misunderstanding!
I agree there has been a shift. (Gratitude Arising!) There is some seeing through of the illusion. I think it's beginning to unfold.
I would say there is a shift occurring. Something is shifting. More moments of seeing through the illusion.
Then five minutes later identification is in full effect. One thing is for sure. The identification is thinning!
So reading the first two it feels like we should ask the final questions and then the last one suggests there may still be some doubt. It is fine if there is, better to be honest and really look at that - by identification I assume you mean a thought arises which appears to identify in some way?

Once it is clear that there is only ever identification or selfing in a thought, then it will be known as just a thought. I find that if I am abiding in spacious awareness, a thought is less likely to ruffle that awareness, because it is free to arise and pass without there being someone to grab onto it and follow it and dissect it as if it was important. As you have seen, thoughts are not controllable, they cannot be chosen, and there is no entity to choose them. They arise and pass. The only thing which makes us think that they are us is a kind of assumption that we are our thoughts, or we are that voice. Then it might be a helpful phase to identify with awareness instead, or the presence, or witness, but of course nothing can be found in that either which we can call self. So thinking, awareness, all occur, and free from defining or being defined as self. This means that our thoughts are less bothersome, because they are no longer anything to do with us, so do not have to define or limit 'us!'

For sure, after the gate, there is still a process and an unfolding, but to learn to dwell in that pure awareness, or clarity, and know that all that ever makes any moment dissatisfactory is nothing but a thought, seems to be the key.

Are you clear about thought and awareness (DE) - and how thought creates the illusions and sufferings that cannot be found in awareness?

Are you clear that neither contain a self?


Either way, there is a shift, and this is such a blessing!

Best wishes,

Nic

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Geoff
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Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Awakening

Postby Geoff » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:12 am

Hi NIc,

Thanks for your reply. It's not that I have doubts. it's that I would like to see this insight generalize a bit. Why dont' we give it a week and see?

I was reflecting a bit on what I would answer if you asked me what the separate self is. The first thing that came to me is that is a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation of what is actually happening. What is actually happening awaring, experiencing. Actions being taken without a chooser or owner of these actions. What is being misinterpreted? Thought and sensation as anything more than that frankly. A mirage is simply colors being misinterpreted as water. Doesn't mean it doesn't appear like water, but every step taken towards the mirage it appears one step further away. (It's interested to consider for a moment how/when this misunderstanding began in the human experience and then became part of the conditioning. From that perspective LU is an attempt to undue thousands or years of conditioning. Wow)

I know you mentioned you don't feel like you are abiding in the understanding yet - how do you feel now after the weekend? It is absurd isn't it, once you see it, it can feel like the most grotesque misunderstanding!
I feel the same, and yes it's quite absurd, and humbling as it's groundhog day over here!
by identification I assume you mean a thought arises which appears to identify in some way?
Exactly - this can be seen but often it takes a moment to look and see the misunderstanding once again. My gut tells me it would be of great benefit it I did this many times a day.

The only thing which makes us think that they are us is a kind of assumption that we are our thoughts, or we are that voic
e
Well said! If we used "thoughts as less bothersome because they no longer have anything to do with us" as an indicator, I think there is more seeing (or unseeing) to be done. There is a sense that "thought/feeling" is still to sticky and frequent.

I will say that both my parents are now in the hospital and on opposite sides of the country so there is a lot going on. Their bodies are in the final stages. I vacillate in between seeing that the body/brain is coming to an end and my parents are dying.
Whereas I always believed that they more than a body/mind now it used to be a thought or something i would tell myself and now it's more of an actual awareness at times.

Are you clear about thought and awareness (DE) - and how thought creates the illusions and sufferings that cannot be found in awareness?

Are you clear that neither contain a self?
I"m clear when I look Nic, but I would say that it takes some looking. When I do look and this is seen there is a opening sensation, a relaxing of tension. I want to be REALLY Honest here. There are still many times when it initially doesn't appear this way. Example - someone recently was quite hurt by an email I sent and the body/mind had quite and intense reaction. Initially if felt like "I" had quite an emotional reaction until I looked and saw there was simply thinking, sensations, and more thinking in the form of resistance. Nothing to do in terms of needing protection. I have also observed that when I"m with people the constant presence of awareness gets ignored and attention goes to the content of thought and feeling. There are automatic reactions. Etc. I' know I"m writing a lot but I want to give you the full picture.

Cheers Brother!
Geoff

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Geoff
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Re: Awakening

Postby Geoff » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:02 pm

HI Nic,
You around? If so, please hit me back when you have a moment.
Thanks
Geoff

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Skygazer74
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Awakening

Postby Skygazer74 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:14 pm

Hi Geoff,

Thank you for these comments, and yes it sounds like a plan to let things settle and see what unfolds, especially considering your situation. I am very sorry to hear about your parents and wish you well in coping with that. Of course there can still be grief without the griever and stress without the stressor or stressee, and reactions and distractions can still arise. I wouldn't let these things convince you that there is still a self. As you are doing, when this happens, look and see that there is no I, and often nothing 'wrong' with the situation except a thought, even if it is painful and difficult. DE is always there in our experience, ready for us to remember.

The most important thing for this enquiry is that the self is seen to be an illusion, and whilst this is very significant and can profoundly affect life, I see it as the beginning of the awakening process rather than the end. The most important thing perhaps for awakening is that the experience of clear awareness is found, and through LU we learn we can shift Into that from all the illusions and constructions of thought. I can recommend some books and forums for further information later :)

I look forward to your observations,

Best wishes,

Nic

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Geoff
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Awakening

Postby Geoff » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:41 am

HI Nic,
Thanks for your wishes my friend. i am more than happy to continue our dialogue as this process unfolds with my parents.
Life continues to be lifing, and i's all part of it. i do appreciate your guidance on see that nothing is wrong, outside of thought. This is something that needs to be looked at again and again.

What I actually meant was why don't we continue with the looking and dialogue for the next week or so and see what happens. Are you comfortable with this?

Thanks,
Geoff


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