Plangent Noise

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:50 am

Hello Zoe. Sorry for 1 day break,
LEt's go on..

It seems like there is hidden knowledge or secrets that other separate beings know that I don’t know. It just appears that things are cordoned off.
Can you explain this more ?
Which separate beings ?




How is the feeling there Zoe ?

Do you feel as a separate individual being ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Zoe
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:37 pm

It seems like there is hidden knowledge or secrets that other separate beings know that I don’t know. It just appears that things are cordoned off.
Can you explain this more ?
Which separate beings ?

How is the feeling there Zoe ?

Do you feel as a separate individual being ?
the appearance is that there is a point of view "over here"
Even knowing that this is not the case this is how life appears
there is a sense of viewing things through the eyes
There is a limited perception from this point of view
If "i" stub my toe I feel it here not someplace else.

I don't know how it is set up this way but it is.
I can see that it is not true and yet, things carry on as if they are separate

When I look for an inside and outside they don't exist
It is all happening in one place, right here
The sounds are happening here, movement is happening here, thoughts, everything is happening right here
and yet there is a sense of or an illusion of an inside or me and an outside or the world still.

There appears to be a separate being that I am typing to who will answer back.
Its a both/and situation
it is all one thing and it is acting like a bunch of seperate things.

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:20 pm

It seems like there is hidden knowledge or secrets that other separate beings know that I don’t know. It just appears that things are cordoned off.
Can you explain this more ?
Which separate beings ?

How is the feeling there Zoe ?

Do you feel as a separate individual being ?
the appearance is that there is a point of view "over here"
Even knowing that this is not the case this is how life appears
there is a sense of viewing things through the eyes
There is a limited perception from this point of view
If "i" stub my toe I feel it here not someplace else.

I don't know how it is set up this way but it is.
I can see that it is not true and yet, things carry on as if they are separate

When I look for an inside and outside they don't exist
It is all happening in one place, right here
The sounds are happening here, movement is happening here, thoughts, everything is happening right here
and yet there is a sense of or an illusion of an inside or me and an outside or the world still.

There appears to be a separate being that I am typing to who will answer back.
Its a both/and situation
it is all one thing and it is acting like a bunch of seperate things.

Thanks for your answers Zoe,
As you saw perfect inside and outside does not exist
"here" and "there" also are both thoughts.
so if there is a pain in the toe
What we can for sure is:
there is sensation.
If there was no thought about it how can we know that it is "down there" - "it is a toe"
and as you see there is no separate self anywhere and any form, yet there is a feeling(subtle thought).
This feeling was always there but there was no self to begin with.
But "Seems like" "feels like" points to uncertain.
And as you said well: it is all one thing and it is acting like a bunch of seperate things.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:25 pm

Can you tell me, Are you Zoe ?
Can you tell me, Do you have ANY responsibility for anything ?
Can you tell me, can you really decide or control anything ?
Can you tell me, what is not happening it self ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Zoe
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Can you tell me, Are you Zoe?
No there is no "Zoe" that is a thought/concept
Can you tell me, Do you have ANY responsibility for anything?
There is no "me" to have responsibility it is all just unfolding or happening naturally perfectly as it should
Can you tell me, can you really decide or control anything?
There is no "me" to decide or control. It is naturally made to "seem" so and that is fine the way it is, but there is no "me" to have responsibility, it is all just unfolding or happening naturally.
Can you tell me, what is not happening itself?
All is happening by itself effortlessly.

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:07 am

Thank you Zoe,
If you can say a big fat "NO" for the existence of a separate self and i see that we are ready for final questions..
If you have no more questions please ask then i will be sending final questions for you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Zoe
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:28 pm

I have no more questions, thank you!

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:08 pm

Thank you Zoe..
So i have more questions :)

Please answer these questions in detail..
Tell us what comes ;)

Thank you..Sending much love



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your
own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


6) Anything to add?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Zoe
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:37 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is not and never was. that is a false self, created by thought
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your
own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I remember l some of the time before learning to talk. that was different. there was no unhappiness or separate self, suffering. learning language /symbols changed existence, brought the idea of self into being. this created the sense of "i"

stopping and looking at it and answering the questions makes it clear without a doubt that this is a made-up entity.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
I had some understanding of this from looking on my own but getting the questions in a clear format helped me look more closely.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Every time I tried to look for the false self I could see more clearly that it was empty, nothing there. the first questions kept coming back to me about looking for the self behind the eyes and I could see that there was nothing there. it was spacious and empty. This stayed with me for all the future questions and just seeing this pushed me over the edge.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice, and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
these are words or ideas about how things work. control, free will, decision, intention. these are lies or misunderstandings that the ego takes as its own after the fact. things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening.

6) Anything to add?
It is simple. it just takes observing what is really happening.

thank you

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adilerten
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Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:12 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is not and never was. that is a false self, created by thought
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your
own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I remember l some of the time before learning to talk. that was different. there was no unhappiness or separate self, suffering. learning language /symbols changed existence, brought the idea of self into being. this created the sense of "i"

stopping and looking at it and answering the questions makes it clear without a doubt that this is a made-up entity.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
I had some understanding of this from looking on my own but getting the questions in a clear format helped me look more closely.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Every time I tried to look for the false self I could see more clearly that it was empty, nothing there. the first questions kept coming back to me about looking for the self behind the eyes and I could see that there was nothing there. it was spacious and empty. This stayed with me for all the future questions and just seeing this pushed me over the edge.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice, and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
these are words or ideas about how things work. control, free will, decision, intention. these are lies or misunderstandings that the ego takes as its own after the fact. things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening.

6) Anything to add?
It is simple. it just takes observing what is really happening.

thank you
Thank you for the answers Zoe,
:)
We have to express our self crystal clear here for our guide friends to check..

So i would like to point few things, then i will send you final qe. again and you can copy paste from our updated work ok ?

ego takes as its own after the fact.
What is the actual experience of an ego ?
Can you locate this "ego" ?
Does it really exist ? Is it an actual smell color ?

things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening.
Who(We) is watching ?
is there "we" that is doing all this?
Is there a breather, thinker, witness, watcher, talker...?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there an experiencer outside of experience happening?


Sending much love..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Zoe
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:03 pm

ego takes as its own after the fact.
What is the actual experience of an ego ?
Can you locate this "ego" ?
Does it really exist ? Is it an actual smell color ?
Again this is a thought or tendency or story it just happens there is no actual ego
things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening.
Who(We) is watching ?
is there "we" that is doing all this?
Is there a breather, thinker, witness, watcher, talker...?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there an experiencer outside of experience happening?
It is all just happening and there is awareness of what is happening. it is all one thing
there is no separation. I can't really know what is actually happening. but I am aware. there is awareness.

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adilerten
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:14 am

ego takes as its own after the fact.
What is the actual experience of an ego ?
Can you locate this "ego" ?
Does it really exist ? Is it an actual smell color ?
Again this is a thought or tendency or story it just happens there is no actual ego
things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening.
Who(We) is watching ?
is there "we" that is doing all this?
Is there a breather, thinker, witness, watcher, talker...?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there an experiencer outside of experience happening?
It is all just happening and there is awareness of what is happening. it is all one thing
there is no separation. I can't really know what is actually happening. but I am aware. there is awareness.
Yes.
Thank you
Please re-form your answers for our guide friends to understand fully open and send the answers again.
:)
Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:14 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your
own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


6) Anything to add?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Zoe
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby Zoe » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:15 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There never is a separate self. It has always been one thing. there is just a story
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It starts with labeling and abstracting with language. We mistake the “I” for an actual separate being. I can remember learning to talk and how open I was before and how things got narrowed down the more labels and definitions came in

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
It’s funny that in a way there is no difference. Life is still going on exactly the same way as before but now it is seen for what it is rather than thinking there is a separate self that is controlling everything.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Every time I tried to look for the false self I could see more clearly that it was empty, nothing there. the first questions kept coming back to me about looking for the self behind the eyes and I could see that there was nothing there. it was spacious and empty. This stayed with me for all the future questions and just seeing this pushed me over the edge.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
these are words or ideas about how things work. control, free will, decision, intention. these are lies or misunderstandings that the ego takes as its own after the fact. things happen, they unfold all we do is watch them happening. Walking, deciding to get up, every little thing happens the same way.

6) Anything to add?
It is simple. it just takes observing what is really happening.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Plangent Noise

Postby adilerten » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:03 am

Ok dear Zoe,
Thank you for the answers
I will ask from my dear guide friends to check if we miss something.
I'll be writing to you soon.

Sending much love.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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