Nityamukta

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Rp thank you for you reply. Your reply has been very useful and a challenge. When I quietly say the word I and reflect if there is an I - I get a kick in the guts. There is an anxiety and physical sensation - almost a holding-on and clinging. I think at times in my life that is all there was of me.

My ‘I’ is that deeply ingrained anxiety and physical sensation. This is a hard nut to crack. We have got to the stage where the real work begins. This will take time and patience. If you want to reconsider doing this with me I fully understand. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:55 pm

NM,

Great, you looked and it sounds like the illusion is running scared !! (:

.
When I quietly say the word I and reflect if there is an I - I get a kick in the guts.
OK, is that kick in the guts 'you' ? Is that sensation of itself directly known to be 'me'.
There is an anxiety and physical sensation - almost a holding-on and clinging.
That 'fear of falling' (as it were) - is that YOU ? What is clinging on?
My ‘I’ is that deeply ingrained anxiety and physical sensation.
Really ? That anxiety may be painful and habitual but does it constitute You ?
There is a man dressed in a red costume - does that mean that Santa Claus exists ?
This is a hard nut to crack.
Says thought; but what nut ? Who feels the need to crack anything ? You only have to look at what is present or not in actual experience.

This may take time and patience or you may be done tomorrow. Direct seeing is outside of time anyway ! All I ask is that you contact me everyday (if only to say 'still looking') and answer each and every question, no matter how repetitive.
You can do this, just look.
Rp xx

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:22 am

Rp thank again for your reply. I will make the commitment to contact you daily.

I am working through your questions. Nm

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:33 am

Rp I am still working on your reply. My plan was to finish it after work but I feel disconnected and not grounded. I still work full time. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:02 pm

Nm, it's great to hear from you anyway.
If you feel disconnected and ungrounded then feel that. It's all good practice to just be with what is. Is there perhaps a message in the feelings ? Like 'don't look here' for instance ?

Rp x

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 pm

Rp I am finding direct pointing a challenge. I tend to float away (a lifetime habit) but I am pulling myself back to basic physical experience. Feeling sensation - the soles of my feet walking and being in that experience. If emotions arise they to are just feelings. I keep the thought - what arises is not conditioned by an I. It is just sensation.

Anxiety is just anxiety. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:12 am

NM,

Now I have missed a day !

Can you relax 'back' into present experience rather than pulling something back? In fact is there anything other than present experience? Ever ?
I keep the thought - what arises is not conditioned by an I. It is just sensation.

But does the 'I' believe that thought ? Look for the I that has that thought.

RP x

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:15 pm

Rp thank you for your reply and happy birthday. I will reflect on what you have said. You are right there is no I that has the thought. There is consciousness but it does not have an I. This is very helpful. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:08 pm

NM,

Please don't reflect ! Look into your direct experience. Me being right or wrong doesn't matter, can you find an I that thinks.

There are the six senses, is there I out there in sense objects or 'in here' or anywhere in between?

Rp x

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:34 am

Rp I am working this at the moment. There is no I in the six senses. Especially the mind sense. I will just watch over the next day. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm

NM,
There is no I in the six senses. Especially the mind sense.
Let's look at this mind sense that is especially without an I.

Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

1 Where are they coming from and going to?

2 Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

3Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

4 Can you predict your next thought?

5 Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

6 Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

7 Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

8 Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

That's a lot but would you actually answer question 1 to 8 rather than describing the experience of looking.
The last bit can be observed in general, not too busy, life as well.

Rp x

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:13 pm

Rp I am ding this exercise now and will back to this morning. Apologies I did not reply soon. Nm

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:43 am

Rp - my reply was lost in sending I think my internet went down, I will redo it. It sounds like dog ate my homework. I will answer 1-4 and then 5-8 as this taking some time. More to follow I am trying to keep with my experience. I feel so daft.

1 Where are they coming from and going to? This is my second answer and it very different to my first. My first answer was rationalising a self. My thoughts just arise uninvited. They get entangled and confused with emotion etc but there is no self creating them. Entanglement is a deeply habitual and hard to catch. I still struggle with the cross over point when I loose lucidity of just seeing thought as thought.

2 Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? I didn’t do anything to make thoughts arise. They arose from memories, senses etc.

3Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? One though ran into next thought. There was no one guiding or directing. My mind tumbled from thought to thought

4 Can you predict your next thought? I cannot predict the next thought. A memory or stimulus would set off a train of thought. There is no one predicting the next thought. My mind was similar to a dream rolling from one thing to the next.

5 Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

6 Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

7 Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

8 Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:13 am

NM.
I'm gonna shoot from the hip as I'm in the middle of electrical disasters!
Yes, the inter web can be very frustrating but it sounds like a second go was beneficial.

You're not daft ! If you didn't know if there was cheese in the fridge or not you'd open the door and look. This is not different.
My thoughts just arise uninvited.
yes !
Entanglement is a deeply habitual and hard to catch.
. You start to believe thought ?

I didn’t do anything to make thoughts arise.
Quite.
They arose from memories, senses etc.


Can you actually see that connection ?
There was no one guiding or directing.
Quite.
My mind tumbled from thought to thought

Do you experience something called a mind? Or are there thoughts arising and passing ?
There is no one predicting the next thought.
OK.

My mind was similar to a dream rolling from one thing to the next.



Good image, Keep watching for any hint of a separate something in charge of the dream in any way whatever. Is such a thing needed for all this to happen ?

Rp

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am

Rp - thank you for message I reply to you tomorrow. I saw the power outage on the news in Sydney looked awful for 1000s. Jnanavira has been staying for few nights getting treatment. My mind has gone off the job chatting with him. He is such a lovely man and he is doing ok. Nm


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