Acceptance of the way things appear to be

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Vivien
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:10 am

Hi Kalina,
Mind wants to joke and say " Only if I didnt wash the dishes and they are sat there the next morning " :-)
But experience tells me , no , it is like a dream of something that happened, which is really just a visual thought
Yes :)

And how is it known that thought is made or created by or came from a mind?

Here are some questions to see if is there anything that is not completely clear. Please answer what's true for you right now, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer.

Has it been seen that there has never been an ‘I’ that could control or own life or anything?

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

Is there an ‘experiencer’?
Is there a ‘thinker’?

Is there a ‘doer’ of any kind which performs activities and movements?

Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Do others have responsibilities?

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?

Any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?


Vivien

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Kalina
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:40 am

And how is it known that thought is made or created by or came from a mind?
Yes, I saw that after I had said it and asked myself the same question :-) and the answer is the question. It isnt known

[quoteHas it been seen that there has never been an ‘I’ that could control or own life or anything?][/quote]

Yes
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
No
Is there an ‘experiencer’?
Is there a ‘thinker’?
No
Is there a ‘doer’ of any kind which performs activities and movements?
No
Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
I know there isnt. But still something in me plays out that believes this.
Do others have responsibilities?
no, but because something in me believes I do, it gets projected onto " others "
Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?
No
Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
No
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?
I feel something still tied up in this belief, though I know its not true
Any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?


The only thing is that I am still identifying with a "me" that played the role of a separation, and caused a lot of suffering for myself ( a me ) this idea of a me rejects itself and projects that outwardly at " others " as judgement . I know there is no separate being here, and these are all thoughts and concepts placed on experience. But I seem to be stuck in it, and trying to see it for what it is..or isnt. I dont know if you can help with that.

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Vivien
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:58 am

Hi Kalina,
V: Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
K: I know there isnt. But still something in me plays out that believes this.
V: Do others have responsibilities?
K: no, but because something in me believes I do, it gets projected onto " others "
Could you please write a bit more about this? Please give examples so we can look at this.
V: Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?
K: I feel something still tied up in this belief, though I know its not true
If you know it’s not true, then how can the belief be there? – Could you please give an example?

If there is no entity now doing anything, then how could have any entity been doing anything before this investigation?

Is it possible that there was a REAL you before this investigation, but this you disappeared by looking?
If yes, how so?
The only thing is that I am still identifying with a "me" that played the role of a separation, and caused a lot of suffering for myself ( a me ) this idea of a me rejects itself and projects that outwardly at " others " as judgement . I know there is no separate being here, and these are all thoughts and concepts placed on experience. But I seem to be stuck in it, and trying to see it for what it is..or isnt. I dont know if you can help with that.
Could you please give an example of this?

Vivien

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Kalina
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:21 pm

Hi Vivien..
Could you please write a bit more about this? Please give examples so we can look at this.
This thing plays out where I feel responsible for messing up things, creating my own suffering , health problems that go with it. what its done to this body , the way it looks. I have really looked at this today and the way it plays out in so many ways, but underneath it all I see that there is a strong belief in a " me " that strongly rejects anything that is less than the idea of " perfect " and so in that there is a rejection of everything that isnt perfect, including myself ( or the me I take myself to be )
This is more seen than identified with now, as I know through the experiential investigations we have done. I see what is real, and yet, this stuff still plays out.

And so also this dualistic conflict plays out in projection too, judging myself through the apparent others . So I see its all about wanting to be seen as perfect and the rejection of anything that isnt, and creating so much suffering in the resistance . Which is all deep conditioning.
If you know it’s not true, then how can the belief be there? – Could you please give an example?
In the way I explained above. That in the experiential investigation I saw there was no " me " doing anything, and yet still this thing plays out where there seems to be a me who feels it is creating suffering by not being perfect, or "awake "
If there is no entity now doing anything, then how could have any entity been doing anything before this investigation?
I see there isnt an entity, but there is an identification with some beliefs. Which is like watching a bad habit of conditioning playing out . But even in that, I see this just looks like a whole bunch of thoughts, and it is those that are being identified with.
Is it possible that there was a REAL you before this investigation, but this you disappeared by looking?
If yes, how so?
I dont see how there could have been a real me before which is now gone. It doesnt exist
Could you please give an example of this?
Not sure if you need another example after my first answer, but happy to do so if you do.

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:57 am

Hi Kalina,
This thing plays out where I feel responsible for messing up things, creating my own suffering , health problems that go with it. what its done to this body , the way it looks. I have really looked at this today and the way it plays out in so many ways, but underneath it all I see that there is a strong belief in a " me " that strongly rejects anything that is less than the idea of " perfect " and so in that there is a rejection of everything that isnt perfect, including myself ( or the me I take myself to be )
Bring up a memory of a situation where you felt for responsible for the above things.
Go directly to the FEELING of responsibility.
How being responsible for messing up things actually FEELS?
Can being responsible actually felt at all?

Can being responsible of the way of my body looks actually experienced?
Can the responsibility itself be experienced an any way at all?
If yes, how so?


Now bring up a thought of rejecting something.
How rejection itself is actually experienced?
Can rejection as such be actually experienced?
If yes, how so?
This is more seen than identified with now, as I know through the experiential investigations we have done. I see what is real, and yet, this stuff still plays out.
Yes, this stuff still plays out, and it’s normal. Seeing through the self is just the beginning, just the first step, not the end.
After the self has seen through, tthe illusion still can be taken as a reality (probably more often than one would expect), and the self could seem to be very real. But when it looked at closely, it’s clear that there is nothing there.

Falling for the illusion can happen much more often than one might expect. It can last for even hours several times during the day. And why? It’s because every time an emotion is triggered (by some circumstances or because of certain thoughts coming up), the self is activated. So whenever there is frustration, wanting or not wanting something, expecting something, having anger, resentment, feeling hurt, disliking something / somebody, etc. the self is there immediately. Since all these emotions are on behalf of the self. And after seeing no-self, all these conditioned issues need to be worked through, otherwise whenever these emotions arise the self comes with them. Humans are very often triggered (many-many times a day) and those triggered reactions can last from minutes to hours, meaning that the self is there and believed to be real for minutes or hours while those triggered reactions are functioning.

Taking the self as real, is also a conditioned habit of thinking. It’s a habit of the ‘mind’. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker. So further looking is the key.
And so also this dualistic conflict plays out in projection too, judging myself through the apparent others . So I see its all about wanting to be seen as perfect and the rejection of anything that isnt, and creating so much suffering in the resistance . Which is all deep conditioning.
Yes, and this requires lots and lots of further looking to gradually dissolve.
That in the experiential investigation I saw there was no " me " doing anything, and yet still this thing plays out where there seems to be a me who feels it is creating suffering by not being perfect, or "awake "
What is it exactly that is not perfect? – find it
What made this statement?

What is it that is not awake? – find it
I see there isnt an entity, but there is an identification with some beliefs. Which is like watching a bad habit of conditioning playing out . But even in that, I see this just looks like a whole bunch of thoughts, and it is those that are being identified with.
Yes, this is how it is after seeing through the self. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through but there will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing, as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. It SEEMS that identifying as the separate self shows up again and again along with feelings of resistance, doubt, frustration and confusion. This is known as yo-yoing and happens to everyone and is normal. Knowing that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own makes it easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

Please let me know what comes up after reading my comments.

Vivien

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Kalina
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:21 pm

Hi Vivien...

Thanks for your reply...
Bring up a memory of a situation where you felt for responsible for the above things.
Go directly to the FEELING of responsibility.
How being responsible for messing up things actually FEELS?
Can being responsible actually felt at all?
There is a contraction felt and emotion
Can being responsible of the way of my body looks actually experienced?
No. There is just a feeling of rejection/resistance
Can the responsibility itself be experienced an any way at all?
If yes, how so?
Responsibilty itself cannot be experienced, just the thought about it
Now bring up a thought of rejecting something.
How rejection itself is actually experienced?
Can rejection as such be actually experienced?
If yes, how so?
Rejection cant be experienced. There is again just a feeling of contraction and resistance
Taking the self as real, is also a conditioned habit of thinking. It’s a habit of the ‘mind’. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker. So further looking is the key.
Thank you, Yes, I see this and and am continuosly looking :-)
What is it exactly that is not perfect? – find it
What made this statement?

What is it that is not awake? – find it
They are just thoughts arising on the behalf of a make believe "separate entity" This is seen and known , but a deeply etched habit of the "mind" which I will keep looking at
Please let me know what comes up after reading my comments.
Thanks Vivien..your comments actually mirrored how I am seeing this, and Im glad you clarified that. I have got an immense clear seeing from your guidance, and I didnt have expectations of a sudden cure of conditioning, but felt to mention it, as there was a little resistance to a couple of answers and I wanted to look at what that was. Im happy to continue deepening into this exploration and looking at the reality of habitual patterns of behaviour on behalf of a "me" .

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:39 am

Hi Kalina,
V: Go directly to the FEELING of responsibility.
How being responsible for messing up things actually FEELS?
Can being responsible actually felt at all?
K: There is a contraction felt and emotion
And how is it known that that contraction and emotion are the ‘feeling of responsibility’?

Do the pure sensations labelled ‘contraction’ and ‘emotion’ suggest in any way that it’s responsibility felt?


Please pay attention to look at each of my questions, and don’t leave any when replying, since all of them are pointers for you where to look. I’m just mentioning this, because you didn’t reply to the second question, which is an important pointer:

Can responsibility actually felt at all?


Thoughts make all sorts of claims, like “I feel responsible of how I look”. But just because there is the word in the thought ‘responsible’ it doesn’t mean the ‘responsibility as such can actually be felt, or experienced in any way. This word doesn’t point to anything at all. Can you see this?

Can such thing as an ‘emotion’ be experienced at all?
What is the AE of an emotion?
Responsibilty itself cannot be experienced, just the thought about it
Yes! Since responsibility is nothing else than a concept/idea/thought. Just as the self.
There is nothing ‘substantial’ behind this word. Can you see this?

Rejection cant be experienced. There is again just a feeling of contraction and resistance
“there is just a feeling of contraction” – let’s look at this a bit closely.

Can contraction actually be felt? Or there is only a PURE sensation, and only thought labels it as ‘contraction’?
Does the pure sensation suggest in any what that it’s contraction?

Go directly the experience of resistance, and see if it can be experienced at all.
What is the AE of resistance?

Im happy to continue deepening into this exploration and looking at the reality of habitual patterns of behaviour on behalf of a "me" .
Liberation Unleashed guides only to seeing through the illusion of the separate self. However, by my above questions can help you to see that even the so called emotions are not what they seem to be. Do you remember the exercises we did on the emotions? You might want to redo them.

Vivien

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Kalina
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:04 am

Hi Vivien...
And how is it known that that contraction and emotion are the ‘feeling of responsibility’?
in AE there is only thought about it, and a sensation , so it is not known that there is a feeling of responsibility
Do the pure sensations labelled ‘contraction’ and ‘emotion’ suggest in any way that it’s responsibility felt?
No, there is just a thought about it
Can responsibility actually felt at all?
No, it is just a thought/concept
Thoughts make all sorts of claims, like “I feel responsible of how I look”. But just because there is the word in the thought ‘responsible’ it doesn’t mean the ‘responsibility as such can actually be felt, or experienced in any way. This word doesn’t point to anything at all. Can you see this?
Yes I see it is just a learnt label, but not the AE
Can such thing as an ‘emotion’ be experienced at all?
No, there are just thoughts, labels and sensations. I see that the "emotion" is just acted out by a non existent self
What is the AE of an emotion?
there is nothing other than a sensation and thought. So there is no AE of any emotion
Yes! Since responsibility is nothing else than a concept/idea/thought. Just as the self.
There is nothing ‘substantial’ behind this word. Can you see this?
Yes, I see it is just a learnt concept and behaviour
Can contraction actually be felt? Or there is only a PURE sensation, and only thought labels it as ‘contraction’?
Yes, I see that now. there is only the pure sensation
Does the pure sensation suggest in any what that it’s contraction?
no, nothing is known except the sensation
Go directly the experience of resistance, and see if it can be experienced at all.
I see this too is just a concept. There is only the pure sensation
What is the AE of resistance?
Just sensation

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:01 am

Hi Kalina,
V: Can such thing as an ‘emotion’ be experienced at all?
K: No, there are just thoughts, labels and sensations. I see that the "emotion" is just acted out by a non existent self
“ I see that the ‘emotion’ is just acted out by a non existent self” – can a non existent thing act out an emotion?
Is this done by an non existent self?


If the non existent self is acting out an emotion, then it means that this self is real, it is there.
So LOOK for this thing, or anything, that is acting out an emotion.

What is it exactly that is acting out an emotion?

What is making an emotion (thoughts, labels, sensations) to appear?

What is it exactly that the experience of acting out an emotion is happening TO?

What is it that is experiencing the acting out of an emotion?

When there is the thought “I am responsible how I look” and the accompanying sensations, what is it exactly that is experiencing these thoughts and sensations?

Find the thing that the experience of “I am responsible how I look” is happening TO?

Feel the accompanying sensations. What is it exactly that is FEELING these sensations?

Where is the FEELER?

Where is the EXPERIENCER of these sensations?


Vivien

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Kalina
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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:52 am

Hi Vivien..
“ I see that the ‘emotion’ is just acted out by a non existent self” – can a non existent thing act out an emotion?
Is this done by an non existent self?
When I wrote this, there was a hesitation about writing it, with a feeling it wasnt true.
There isnt a non existent self doing anything. There isnt a non existent self
What is it exactly that is acting out an emotion?
There isnt anything acting out an emotion. It is a thought that there is
What is making an emotion (thoughts, labels, sensations) to appear?
Nothing, they just appear
What is it exactly that the experience of acting out an emotion is happening TO?
its just happening. It isnt happening TO anything or anyone
What is it that is experiencing the acting out of an emotion?
There is no acting out of an emotion, and nobody experiencing that
When there is the thought “I am responsible how I look” and the accompanying sensations, what is it exactly that is experiencing these thoughts and sensations?
NOthing can be found. There is just the experience of the thoughts and sensations
Find the thing that the experience of “I am responsible how I look” is happening TO?
Nothing can be found. It isnt happening to anyone.
Feel the accompanying sensations. What is it exactly that is FEELING these sensations?
There are just the experience of sensations. Nothing is feeling these
Where is the FEELER?
a feeler cant be found
Where is the EXPERIENCER of these sensations?
There isnt one. just experience

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:04 am

Hi Kalina,

How do does it feel to see that there is no experiencer, that the thoughts ‘I am responsible how my body looks’ doesn’t happen to anything?

Is searching/seeking still going on?

Is there a desire to do more exercises?

Did you experience any shift in perspective, even if it didn’t last?
If yes, could you please write a bit about it?


Vivien

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:34 am

Hi VIvien..
How do does it feel to see that there is no experiencer, that the thoughts ‘I am responsible how my body looks’ doesn’t happen to anything?
it feels like there is no " me" that is responsible for anything, and there is a relaxation in that
Is searching/seeking still going on?
more of a "looking" now. Some questions have arisen from things seen, but I continue to look at those things
Is there a desire to do more exercises?
I do enjoy the exercises. If there more to do under your guidance, I would do them happily . If there arent, then I will happily continue to keep looking at what you have already shared.
Did you experience any shift in perspective, even if it didn’t last?
If yes, could you please write a bit about it?
Yes, there has definitely been a shift in perspective.
I now see how much thoughts can create ideas about things and be believed if identified with
I have seen strongly how nothing is separate, and there is a relaxation in that. where as before, I could get lost in thoughts, now I feel a calmness and just see them arise but am not pulled into them . Though there are still moments I am, but it is seen straight away
I have had many "wow" moments , seeing things as I have never seen them before. One such thing was when I was looking at colour and seeing that there were no objects . Nothing could be removed , separated from anywhere.
I have seen and am still getting spontaneous seeings of there not being any separate self at all
Overall, seeing is clearer than before. And more and more relaxation is taking place from this clearer seeing.

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:44 am

Hi Kalina,
I do enjoy the exercises. If there more to do under your guidance, I would do them happily . If there arent, then I will happily continue to keep looking at what you have already shared.
Liberation Unleashed guides only to see through the illusion of the self. However, as we talked about it before this is just a first step, since only core belief of being a separate self is seen through which also includes others beliefs that support this idea. However, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots (beliefs, patterns) that need undoing. Falling away of conditionings can last at the end of the organism. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key. LU only guides to the realisation of ‘no separate self’.
Yes, there has definitely been a shift in perspective.
I now see how much thoughts can create ideas about things and be believed if identified with
I have seen strongly how nothing is separate, and there is a relaxation in that. where as before, I could get lost in thoughts, now I feel a calmness and just see them arise but am not pulled into them . Though there are still moments I am, but it is seen straight away
I have had many "wow" moments , seeing things as I have never seen them before. One such thing was when I was looking at colour and seeing that there were no objects . Nothing could be removed , separated from anywhere.
I have seen and am still getting spontaneous seeings of there not being any separate self at all
Overall, seeing is clearer than before. And more and more relaxation is taking place from this clearer seeing.
Wonderful! :)

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Vivien

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Kalina » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:56 am

Hi Vivien...
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No, there never was or is. Before this guidance, this was known through other teachings, but never really seen so closely and experienced in such a way this guidance has .
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self is a belief that you are an independent entity in control of "your" life, your body, your thoughts. That there is a thinker, feeler, chooser. That you are the one "doing" and having to "do" and that everything is separate from you. I see these ideas and beliefs come from conditioning, and what we are taught we are, and the world is.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Its not a completely new revelation to me, as this was known before hand to an extent. But this guidance has taken me into a far deeper seeing than before. To really experience this, rather than just understand it. I definitely see things in a different way now. There is just a resting in that, a relaxation, like a "coming home" feeling, though knowing there is still a lot more to see through yet and unravel.

Before starting the investigation, I was definitely identifying with thought a lot more, and this has shifted a lot through this looking. It has been fascinating doing such a deep investigation into thought. I had no idea before, just how big a part they played in the illusion of a separate self.

I have also noticed that there is a feeling of being more "complete" , through seeing in my experience that nothing is separate , and there definitely a sense of peace that comes with that.

Generally my perception has shifted in many ways, and still doing so, as the seeds of these discoveries are starting to sprout in the most random of ways, and my eyes open further.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
There wasnt a last bit that pushed me over. I felt a push from the start, and would sit for hours going over the same thing. I found it fascinating to look, and wanted to throughout
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
These terms suggest that there is somebody that has, or doing these things. In my experience, I see that things just happen by themselves...there is no thing to be found that makes things happen, or that is doing anything.
I noticed from doing the "making a cup of tea" exercise , and from then on, that everything was getting done, not by me, but choices were being made, not by me, but just by a noticing , a "knowing" ...each apparent movement wasnt being done by "me"..there was no thinker that controlled every movement, there was no doer doing anything.
I noticed recently when "I" making some food, that things has been happening that "I" didnt know about. I was contemplating some of the guidance. Then suddenly felt a jolt in realising " I " had no memory of cooking. Which made me look more at memory again, but also it was a strong seeing that there was no "me" doing anything.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Garatefully, we looked at this quite a bit, and I eventually saw that I am not responsible for anything. Because there is no me doing anything. We looked at this because I had felt responsible for creating my own suffering . But I saw these are all just thoughts , and a belief that I was responsible .
I actually had an interesting experience during the investigation. I was sat outside and I saw a bee in the long grass that looked weary. I felt that sense of "I" should do something, make it better. I knew from learnt knowledge that sometimes they get weary and need sugar water, so I got some, and tried to move the bee and give it the water. But I seemed to make things worse and felt like I caused it suffering. I cried a little as I realised and saw that this is what I often did, and saw that its what I did when I felt responsible, and that there was a "me" who had to fix things. It was following the excercise we had done about the decision maker, the chooser, and I saw clealy that I had thought of myself as a separate entity that had to fix things, that I had been the chooser and decision maker instead of letting things just be and see if there was a "movement " from nowhere to " do " anything
6) Anything to add?
Its been a really valuable investigation. I have loved the depths of the questions, and have seen so much through the actual experience of looking. Things are so much clearer now, and I will continue to look at everything we have explored.
I am still looking at memory at the moment, and need to go back to our exercises on that, as there seems to be something that I havent experienced fully , as there is still a belief about memory lingering.

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Re: Acceptance of the way things appear to be

Postby Vivien » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:51 pm

Hi Kalina,

I have some more questions for you.
But I seemed to make things worse and felt like I caused it suffering. I cried a little as I realised and saw that this is what I often did, and saw that its what I did when I felt responsible, and that there was a "me" who had to fix things.
“felt like I caused it suffering” – what is exactly that caused suffering to the bee?
“saw it’s what I did when I felt responsible” – what is it that felt responsible in the past?
Where is the one that caused suffering in the past?
and I saw clealy that I had thought of myself as a separate entity that had to fix things, that I had been the chooser and decision maker instead of letting things just be and see if there was a "movement " from nowhere to " do " anything
“I had thought of myself as a separate entity” – what is it that saw itself as a separate entity?
“instead of just letting things just be” - What is it that can let things just be?
I am still looking at memory at the moment, and need to go back to our exercises on that, as there seems to be something that I havent experienced fully , as there is still a belief about memory lingering.
What is it that has a need to look at memory?
What is it that hasn’t experienced something fully about memory?


Vivien


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