Fear decreasing

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:00 am

Hi Nameless,
Sitting here for a few moments, an image of an abyss appeared with nameless at the edge and zero fear===first time ever. thoughts and desires of wanting to jump appear. sensations felt in the body labeled as slight anxiety, then the realization/thought appears: no need to fear, no one is going to push you over the edge; you jump when you're ready. no more sensations in the body. i know i'm telling stories right now, Vivien, but this has been a theme since the late 90's--this terror to fear while on the edge of some type of abyss. still on the edge, but no fear right now. :)
This is a pure fantasy, and you are afraid of your own fictionary creation.
thoughts being believed it's scary to think/know NO SELF.
but i'm also aware of those thoughts that continue saying, "Don't go anywhere." meaning, don't disappear, don't go to that place where no self exists, it's dangerous. Typical ptsd symptom, hyper vigilance, head on a swivel. I lived basically my entire childhood, up to age 15 like this, too.
The thing is that this inquiry is not suitable for those who has PTSD or sever anxiety. It can cause more problems. So please investigate if it’s safe for you to continue with this inquiry.

But these fears are definitely holding you back.
I think the fact that there is no self is not utterly believed or clear as of yet, for whatever reason(s), maybe it's not been enough times, or in a deep enough way--i don't know.
It’s about your fearful fantasies.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:03 pm

Hi Vivien,

I don't see where or how this looking has caused more problems for 'me.' In fact, just the opposite has been reported since June. Fears come up, i believe for everyone. Yes, i know they hold 'me' back, don't they hold everyone back? They're being faced every time they come up, and they're decreasing. Seeing through the self is occurring, peace has definitely increased here, and although fears are definitely decreasing, they still arise---totally normal as far as i can see, and i think my last statement was that there wasn't any fear at that particular time--when in 'the past' there's been terror there. and, as i've been told, even after seeing through the self, fears, among other emotions still come up, normal. i'm confused as to why you think i might not be safe in some way. overall, i thought the last post was positive. just because there are feelings of fear doesn't mean i'm in danger. if i thought i was in any real danger i wouldn't be here. i'm not seeing whatever it is that you're seeing regarding this is safe for me to continue. i'm going to continue looking with or without you because there is absolutely no real danger in this particular 'unit'/thought looking, i thought that was clear. if you're uncomfortable working with me, let me go; otherwise, we can move forward. In the meantime, and for the rest of this life, looking at these pure fantasies, and at the one who thinks and feels them to be real will continue; de-conditioning will continue.

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:51 am

Hi Nameless,
They're being faced every time they come up, and they're decreasing.
That’s great. I had to ask to look at these fears since you mentioned PTSD. And with PTSD and strong anxiety, looking for the self can increase the fear. I had to comment on this, since there has been problems here on LU recently. So now there is a bigger cautiousness in place. But if you feel comfortable, I have no problem continuing. :)

OK. Just look. It's very simple.

Is there ANY evidence for a self/me, here now? ANY?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:36 am

Hi Vivien
Is there ANY evidence for a self/me, here now? ANY?
ok, so sounds are heard/hearing happens, but no hearer, sensations are felt, but there is no one feeling them. also, thoughts are arising, but there is no one here 'thinking' them, they are just arising and disappearing by themselves. the body moves and does things, but there is no person or being telling it what to do, it just moves on it's own. smelling of nice rose oil, no 'smell-er.' images/light and darker have been seen, but no see-er...several times. ok, feeling full b/c i hahaha 'i' ....had a hard time with tasting w/no taster, so i kept eating. i finally had enough and just did what i do most nights after i'm 'done' eating for the night: eat a piece of 80% cocoa dark chocolate. thoughts said if it couldn't been seen after the chocolate, i give up on this one. so, while chocolate melting in the mouth: taste w/no taster.

thoughts talked about 'i,' thoughts asked questions like: who's tasting, who's noticing such and such, but no evidence was found for any self/me, just thoughts and sensations--conditioning that sometimes felt like a me, felt familiar, but there is no evidence of a self/me in those thoughts and sensations.

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:11 am

Hi Nameless,
thoughts talked about 'i,' thoughts asked questions like: who's tasting, who's noticing such and such, but no evidence was found for any self/me, just thoughts and sensations--conditioning that sometimes felt like a me, felt familiar, but there is no evidence of a self/me in those thoughts and sensations.
OK, good. I would like to ask you that in the next couple of days keep looking for ANY evidence for a separate self.

Please look as often as you can remember.

Let me know how it goes.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:31 pm

in the next couple of days keep looking for ANY evidence for a separate self.
ok, i will report back sunday night

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:59 pm

Hi Vivien,
in the next couple of days keep looking for ANY evidence for a separate self.
Again, no evidence of a separate self when looking. Seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling happen. Thoughts arise and disappear. In AE there are no words, no emotions, no judgments. In AE there is only seeing, hearing etc., no one doing or experiencing those things. Thoughts come in lightning fast and talk about AE, make judgments, tell stories, blah blah blah. "What" notices all of that? "I" says it doesn't have a name or a form. "People" call it consciousness or awareness or life, but it is IMPERSONAL, there is no separate self in AE. (for that matter, there's no separate self in lost in thoughts either) What is aware, does not know things; only 'people' 'know' things. What is aware is the same thing that 'it' is aware of, the same exact thing; there are not two things there, there is only one. I can't even say: "what is aware' really b/c that implies something separate and stable. "I" think the best way to put it might be to say aware-ing or life-ing is happening. The whole wave/ocean image that keeps coming up after looking happens, the wave is not separate from the ocean, nor is it made of something different than the ocean. Kind of like thoughts, too, in that they arise and disappear again and again and again; seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling arises and falls away, arises and falls away.... Like the ocean..tides come in and go out, waves arise and fall---in constant motion, except apparently at the bottom where it's still. Which reminds me, i was wondering about the stillness, that perfect stillness that can be experienced, too; just part of the picture show, too?

Well, that's how it went and all that's here right now.

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:03 am

Hi Nameless,
"What" notices all of that? "I" says it doesn't have a name or a form. "People" call it consciousness or awareness or life, but it is IMPERSONAL, there is no separate self in AE.
But even an ‘impersonal awareness or consciousness’ is just a concept.

Is there an ‘impersonal awareness or consciousness’ in reality?
Which reminds me, i was wondering about the stillness, that perfect stillness that can be experienced, too; just part of the picture show, too?
WHAT could experience this perfect stillness?
What this perfect stillness could happen TO?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:52 pm

Hi Vivien
Is there an ‘impersonal awareness or consciousness’ in reality?
trying to define the undefinable, but seemingly 'i'm' missing something here, too.... try again...looking....having a lot of trouble giving full attention to this now, and i have a prior engagement so i will try again tomorrow

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:19 am

Hi, will look tomorrow. life moves in unexpected ways sometimes

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:23 am

All right. I'm looking forward to your reply :)
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:37 am

Is there an ‘impersonal awareness or consciousness’ in reality?
Not sure i'd know reality if it slapped me in the face. there is experience, no experiencer. the movement of awareness/sound, awareness/sensation, etc., again, one thing, arising. even That, is that Reality? maybe/probably there's more and it's not seen yet. and, even what's been seen is not KNOWN. I like NOT knowing stuff. Knowing, or thinking I know things is the cause of suffering as far as i can see. anyway, experience happens or awareness happens or consciousness happens. i don't believe IT/this verb thing has a name, but we have to call it something. may i ask what you call IT/this verb thing/Reality?
WHAT could experience this perfect stillness?
No thing, no one. Q: then how is it known that stillness is experienced? A: thoughts talk about AE. Q: but what knows thoughts talk? A: no thing, no one. Q: What discerns if thoughts talk about AE or just talk conditioning? A: Discerning is just happening....or not happening
What this perfect stillness could happen TO?
no thing, no one

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:19 am

Hi Nameless,
Not sure i'd know reality if it slapped me in the face. there is experience, no experiencer. the movement of awareness/sound, awareness/sensation, etc., again, one thing, arising. even That, is that Reality?
The question is whether there is such thing an impersonal awareness or consciousness, or it’s just imagined or thought of?
Knowing, or thinking I know things is the cause of suffering as far as i can see. anyway, experience happens or awareness happens or consciousness happens. i don't believe IT/this verb thing has a name, but we have to call it something. may i ask what you call IT/this verb thing/Reality?
It doesn’t matter how it is called.

The question is whether there is really such thing as awareness or consciousness AND another thing that is being awared?

Whether there are two things there, ever?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:04 pm

The question is whether there is such thing an impersonal awareness or consciousness, or it’s just imagined or thought of?
just a thought
The question is whether there is really such thing as awareness or consciousness AND another thing that is being awared?
perhaps i didn't understand the question and perhaps you didn't understand the answer. looking again...same answer for the past 3 and 1/2 months when looking: Not two things, only one. it is true only one thing even when not looking
Whether there are two things there, ever?
looking again...one thing all the 'time.'

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:38 pm

Hi Nameless,
perhaps i didn't understand the question and perhaps you didn't understand the answer. looking again...same answer for the past 3 and 1/2 months when looking: Not two things, only one. it is true only one thing even when not looking
You know that I repeatedly ask the same questions again and again. :)

Is there still some seeking?

Have you find what you came for to LU?

Are you satisfied with the investigation?

Is there anything missing?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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