What does the label ‘mind’ point to? Does it point to sound, colour, sensation, taste, smell or thought?
It points to thought.
Yes, there is no ‘mind’ beyond thought.
Sometimes thought precede action of the body. But it's not certain that the thought has been the catalyst. Often action get's trigged by just sensation and then thought just in retrospect summarises what's happening.
How is this known? Without thought…how is this known?
It's not known without thought.
Yes…thought based knowledge is fantasy. What is direct/actual experience is known…not because a thought labels it, but because it is direct/actual. In other words a thought isn’t needed to know colour, smell, taste, sensation, sound or thought…they are known. Thought based knowledge is content of thought and thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If it did, when the thought ‘water’ appeared, it would be wet. When the thought “tree” appeared it would contain an actual tree. If thought based knowledge was actual/real, then fairies must be real since thoughts about fairies arise as well!
Where exactly can this ‘storage system’ be found? And please don’t say the brain. If you think the brain, I want you to look and tell me what the AE of the brain is.
How does a sensation suggest that it is a memory? Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that is a memory or knows anything about a memory?
How is it known that a thought and sensation go hand in hand?
No not the brain rather the whole body.
You didn’t LOOK. So let’s begin to LOOK at this ASSUMPTION and we will do this by looking to see if the head is actual experience or fantasy. This will then give you an idea if the body is actual experience or fantasy. We will be looking at the body more indepth later on in this exploration. For now...we start with the head because the head is believed to be the location where thoughts/thinking happens.
Please IGNORE all thoughts and mental images of ‘head’ and ‘fingers’ and just answer from actual experience.
Close your eyes and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and keeping your eyes closed...
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?
Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the sensation labelled as ‘pressure points’, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them?
Are there actually two ‘pressure points’?
Without thought, how big is your head?
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Without thought, does it have a location?
What “memory sensation” exactly? What is the AE of “memory sensation”? Does it point to colour, sound, sensation, smell, taste or thought?
No the memory sensation doesn't know by itself. Just thought stories know. Also memory impressions in the body aren't known by itself. Only thought knows.
Does a sensation suggest in any way that it is a memory?
Does a sensation suggest in any way that it knows anything about a memory?
Thoughts are not entities that are aware. How can a thought possibly know about “memory impressions in the body”?
Is this actually known, or is the thought story about “memory impression in the body” is what is known?
After doing the thought exercise and seeing that there is no thinker of thought, you are now saying that there is a you that thinks? Where exactly is this you that thinks? Please describe this you to me in precise detail and where this you is located exactly.
It's maybe a problem of language. Feels a bit odd not to use any pronouns any more, but surely there isn't a thinker. So to correct the last sentence of that paragraph: Thought jumps to something else in dependance of a trigger.
Thought is not as thought describes itself to be. Thought describes the AE of colour as a tree, so why would what thought describes itself to be, be true?
A thought isn't known because of its appearance or its content...it is known because it is THIS/experience itself. That is why you can’t find where thought comes from or goes to…because it is not a ‘thing’. Colour isn’t known because it is a colour, or that it is an appearance...it is known because it is THIS/experience. The same goes for sound, taste, smell and sensation.
A question: you say
Actual experience is everything, except the CONTENT of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If it did the thought ‘water’ would be wet and the thought ‘sweet’ would taste sweet and the thought ‘fish’ would contain an actual fish!
This is understood. However, what about the power of thought to trigger emotions in the body, even strong bodily reactions? A memory of a frightening situation causes stress in the body. And it seems the content of that memory thought which causes the stress which would suggest that there is an actual experience of thought content, no?
So…sensation is waiting somewhere in the background…waiting for a specific thought to appear…so it knows to appear when that specific thought appears! Must mean that sensations hide somewhere and that they have an intelligence of their own. Same goes for thought. So now there is an illusory you, and sensations and thoughts that are individual entities!
We will look at this later on. First I want to finish looking at the nature of thought.
Did you go back and review the thought exercise as asked? Please do this and report back.
Please go back and review the thought exercise.
Nice story and no LOOKING. Where is this "I" that is doing "meditative absorption"?
But how about meditative absorption? When after a while thoughts become less agitated and attention stays easily on the body sensation. Thought is less disturbing then. Attention becomes one with just being. It's not that attention has been controlled into that or that thoughts are subdued. But yet it works to that effect that thoughts calm down and become less attractive and attention is more focussed on the calm.
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?
If you are not going to start to LOOK but insist on going with thoughts…then you might as well go read a book about ‘awakening’. You can ask a million question starting with ‘but how about” and “but what about”. If you are serious about wanting to have the realisation about the absence of a separate self…please be here with an open mind and a willingness to LOOK. I am not here to convince you of anything. This exploration is about me pointing and you LOOKING so you find your own answers. So if you are not willing to LOOK...then this exploration goes nowhere. I know you have many questions…but they answer themselves as we move through this exploration….if you are willing to LOOK.
I would like you to go back to the beginning of your thread and REREAD it very carefully and thoroughly….so that you start to see what we have looked at so far. And please REREAD and REDO the thought exercise and report back on what insights you get from doing this.