Light for Erin

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ErinAmber
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Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Mon May 13, 2019 9:11 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I know this intellectually, but there is a burning desire to live it as well.

What are you looking for at LU? To awaken the the Truth.
To help me to see the Truth. I want to live absolutely free and be able to help others to see the Truth. I don't want to live with the veil of illusion. I fell that I'm ready for this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I give him/her the key of the my bedroom, so the guide can woke me up by using a glass of water, shaking the bed, or even turn it over. I don't want to sleep any longer. And I believe that the guide knows what to do.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

I'm following vajrayana budist teaching since 2012.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 am

Hi,

My name is Vivien, and I am happy to assist in exploring 'no-self' and other related topics.

At LU we are described as guides - not teachers - as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Before we begin, here are links to information I would like you to read please.
Disclaimer:-
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:
https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

A few ground rules:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. This exploration is based on Actual (or Direct) Experience (AE or DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and thoughts - only. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

A few technical support:

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the 'Post Reply" button at the left bottom of this page.
- You can learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run.


If you are happy to agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process.

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration (for example, what life will look and feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change). Could you please answer the following questions:

How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer ALL questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions INDIVIDUALLY, remembering to use the Quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Tue May 14, 2019 3:16 pm

How will Life change?
The Life will not change with a magic stick. The next day it will be the same – for others. But after seeing the Truth, may be my look at it will be different.

How will you change?
I hope that my fears will stop. I will be calm, more focus, intuitive, I will know how to help others. All enlighten people I know, are wonderful people. I wanna be like them.
I don’t know what exactly will happened with me, but I have a burning desire for this change.
What will be different?
The way how I will see the Life.

What is missing?
What is missing to me? Nothing in our human world. The Thuth is missing me. I want to see it and then to wake up others.

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Wed May 15, 2019 4:20 am

Hi,
How can I call you?

I’d like to ask you to learn to use the quote function, since I will ask lots of questions later, and without quoting the text will be hard to read. Here is the link again how to use quotation:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Also, could you please confirm that you read the disclaimer, terms and conditions and the rules, and you accept them?


Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations are about the future. But awakening cannot be found in the future.

I go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises ‘in the body’. Is there any resistance to any of it?
The Life will not change with a magic stick. The next day it will be the same – for others. But after seeing the Truth, may be my look at it will be different.
Life won’t change at all it will goes on just as before. Only the perception of the self will change.
I hope that my fears will stop.
There is no guarantee that fears will stop. Suffering happens when being lost in thoughts happens. It means that the thoughts in that moment are not seen only as arising thoughts (only as ‘containers’ coming and going), but rather they ‘content’, what they are about is taken as reality. And of course, since each thought is about the self, the self is taken as something real. And this, let’s call ‘delusion’ still can happen even after seeing the illusion of the self. But when it’s investigated, it can be seen for what it is. But there is no guaranty that in the next moment the story of a self won’t reassert itself. It’s a habit of the mind. It’s a conditioned pattern of thinking. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker.

Also, personality problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.
I will be calm, more focus, intuitive, I will know how to help others.
Happiness or peace is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting WHATEVER is arising in this moment (even the so called negative emotions).

Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case.

Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual.

For example, did you ever once believe that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy was real? If you did at one point, and don't now, does the experience of discovery last? Or is it that the knowledge that there is no such thing as Santa or Tooth Fairy is just another ‘fact’?

Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
All enlighten people I know, are wonderful people. I wanna be like them.
This is a BIG expectation! If you expect to be like them, you can miss what is going on here, right now. Comparing yourself to others won’t help you, actually this is a big hindrance.

Before starting, please report what came up reading the comments about the expectations.
Was there any resistance to any of it?

So, what we are going to do is that I’ll give you some exercises, physical ones, in which I will ask you to describe the experience of the senses. We call this direct experience, or the uninterpreted moment. This refers to the data from the sensations themselves, before the mind tries to make sense of it and begins to describe what is happening. Observing with the five senses — seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching/feeling. These exercises can help to see what is ‘real’ and what is not.

So, the first thing to investigate is to find out what you currently believe yourself to be.
This should be kept very simple and should not be anything requiring in-depth analysis or thought.

The standard view of 'I', 'me' is that of a person - A body with a mind.
The standard view is that 'I' refers to this body that appears here in awareness. I am this body. Also 'I' have control over this body.
Since 'I' am this body, 'I' see, 'I' hear, 'I' feel, etc - I perform all the senses.
This body was born - It will live a number of years - And then it (I) will die.

Feel free to reject what I have suggested if they don't match what you currently believe yourself to be.

Currently, would it be fair to say that you believe that currently you are a person sitting in a chair, looking at a computer screen and reading words off it right now?

What does the word 'I' point to?
What makes this body ‘yours’?
What makes this body ‘you’?

I will write all questions in blue, please always answer ALL of them. These questions are pointers where to LOOK. Of course, you can also reply to any other parts of my posts if you feel need to.

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Wed May 15, 2019 11:59 pm

Hallo, Vivian!

Thank you to accept to guide me. I want to appologize for my English. I hope everything is OK now with my writting... So, let'"s start:

How can I call you?

You can call me Ambar. (R is not pronounced :-) )

Also, could you please confirm that you read the disclaimer, terms and conditions and the rules, and you accept them?

Yes

Is there any resistance to any of it?

No

Before starting, please report what came up reading the comments about the expectations.
Was there any resistance to any of it?

I accept what you wrote. I understood that I had some wrong expectations. Thank you.
No.

Currently, would it be fair to say that you believe that currently you are a person sitting in a chair, looking at a computer screen and reading words off it right now?

Rather yes.
What does the word 'I' point to?

Difficult question. I am not the boddy, I am not my feelings, I am not my thoughts, I am not my conceptions, I am not my memories, neither my name. In the essence I should be emptiness.
Like computer – initially it is absolutely empty, but slowly they (parents, school , society…) charge with different programs: believes , conceptions, traditions… But we are maybe emptiness and energy. The same for all being, for everything in the nature.

What makes this body ‘yours’?

Becouse I can control it and receive information from 5 senses and consciousness.

What makes this body ‘you’?
The habbit to believe in Santa Claus. And because I do not have a direct experience of let go the ego, the I.

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Thu May 16, 2019 2:44 am

Hi Ambar,
V: What does the word 'I' point to?
A: Difficult question. I am not the boddy, I am not my feelings, I am not my thoughts, I am not my conceptions, I am not my memories, neither my name. In the essence I should be emptiness.
Like computer – initially it is absolutely empty, but slowly they (parents, school , society…) charge with different programs: believes , conceptions, traditions… But we are maybe emptiness and energy. The same for all being, for everything in the nature.
All right. This is not the description of actual experience (AE), but the contents of thoughts.

But that’s all right, this is what thoughts are ABOUT: analysing, interpreting, and putting everything into categories or into order, and most of all, conceptualizing the actual experience.

But for this investigation we have to stick to the pure experience, BEFORE any thought interpretation. So I will give you exercises, and you just have to look what is there BEFORE thoughts, or WITHOUT thoughts, or if the contents of thoughts are ignored.

So AE is: sounds/hearing, smells/smelling, taste/tasting, sight/seeing, sensation/sensing, and seeing the appearance of a thought. But what the thought about is not AE.

When I ask the question ‘what does the word ‘I’ point to?’- I’m not asking for an intellectual explanation, but I’m asking you to look at your immediate direct experience, and find the ‘thing’ that the word ‘I’ points to. So What does the word ‘I’ points to?
V: What makes this body ‘you’?
A: The habbit to believe in Santa Claus. And because I do not have a direct experience of let go the ego, the I.
Again, this is an intellectual answer. Look at your experience. What makes this body ‘you’?

Vivien

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Thu May 16, 2019 4:50 am

I want to appologize for my English.
What is your native language?

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Thu May 16, 2019 11:01 pm

Hallo Vivien!

Now I understand what you wants but the question is again very difficult to me.

When I ask the question ‘what does the word ‘I’ point to?’- I’m not asking for an intellectual explanation, but I’m asking you to look at your immediate direct experience, and find the ‘thing’ that the word ‘I’ points to. So What does the word ‘I’ points to?


So when I ask myself „what does I points to” – I feel inner energy in my body, and some loving feeling arises in my heard chakra. But I can not expirience the I. I can not find it.

What makes this body ‘you’?

When I meditate and sleep I do not have this attachment with the body. I am not the body.

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 am

Hi Ambar,

All right. Let’s to try to separate out thoughts from what is ‘real’.
But at first, as an example, let’s try to find Darth Vader from Star Wars.
We’re looking for a real Darth Vader that can be found.

In order to prove that it exists, we have to experience it directly by seeing, hearing, touching/feeling, smelling.

The image projected to the cinema screen is not it.
The poster on the wall about Darth Vader is not it.
The memory in ‘my head’ about Darth Vader is not a proof of its existence.
A thought suggesting that “he may be exist somewhere in the galaxy” is just an idea, but not a proof of it.
A lego figure of Darth Vader is not a real Darth Vader.
A life size wax figure exhibited in a museum is not it.
A twelve-year old boy dressed in a Darth Vader costume is not it.

Now, try to find the ‘I’ that supposedly owns the body. Look everywhere. Search every corner of the body, memories, feelings, thoughts, or any other places. Don’t leave any stones unturned.

Let's take 'seeing' as a first example.

Right now, these words on the screen are being seen. Examine the actual experience right now.

Observing with the five senses — seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching — PRIOR TO THOUGHTS is what we refer to as Direct Experience. So notice what is directly experienced versus THOUGHTS ABOUT what is experienced.

Now, can it be found what is seeing them?
Do you see a seer?
Can be located, found, tracked-down etc the 'thing' that is seeing these words on the screen right now?

I want to appologize for my English.
What is your native Language?

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Fri May 17, 2019 9:45 pm

Hi, Vivien!
What is your native Language?
I am Bulgarian. I understand you very well. I know Russian and French, but not fluently.

Now, can it be found what is seeing them? (The words on the screeng)
No
Do you see a seer?
No
Can be located, found, tracked-down etc the 'thing' that is seeing these words on the screen right now?

No

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Sat May 18, 2019 2:20 am

Hi Ambar,

Before posting your reply, you can see a preview, by pressing the ‘Preview’ button next to the ‘Submit’ button. In this way, you can make corrections if it’s needed. From now on, I will ask more questions, so it would be good if your replies are clear and more readable, since your quotations sometimes confusion.
I am Bulgarian. I understand you very well.
I hope that it will go well. It’s essential that you can understand the questions well, since in this type of guiding the wording is really important. So if you are uncertain about something, please let me know.

As stated in my first post, my role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been.

Okay, now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment. You are looking at the raw experience of AE and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

The whole illusion is mainly created by thoughts. So therefore, we will investigate thoughts and thought labels thoroughly.
So then let’s have a deeper look on thoughts. Sit for about 15 minutes and investigate these questions. Look for the ‘answer’ BEFORE thought interpretation kicks in.

Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts? – don’t think, rather look for a ‘thinker’
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?


Please go through these questions and answer and quote ALL of them one-by-one. Don’t miss any. Try to answer them only from direct experience, and leave aside all intellectual interpretation or understanding. Please, DON’T THINK about the answers, rather LOOK at what is before thoughts. Take your time.

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Sun May 19, 2019 12:02 am

Hi, Vivien!

Where do thoughts come from?

From the mind – the store of the memories and concepts, that are not Me.

Where are they going?

They disappear. Sometimes they lead to other thoughts, which also disappear.

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

It is possible.

Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?


No. But during the meditation for example I can fallow a line of thoughts through concentration.

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?


Yes, but not always.

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?


No.
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?


It is the mind, but it is not me.

What is the thinker of thoughts? – don’t think, rather look for a ‘thinker’


The mind, it takes information from the store of memories,combines, puts lavels… It processes information.

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?


No

Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?


Yes


Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?


Yes

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?


It is difficult, but it is possible.

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Sun May 19, 2019 3:38 am

Hi Ambar,

Your replied did not come from looking at actual experience, but rather from thoughts, as an intellectual explanation. You have to IGNORE COMPLETELY what THOUGHTS ABOUT actual experience, and look the experience directly. Can you see the difference?
V: Where do thoughts come from?
A: From the mind – the store of the memories and concepts, that are not Me.
V: What is the thinker of thoughts? – don’t think, rather look for a ‘thinker’
A: The mind, it takes information from the store of memories,combines, puts lavels… It processes information.
These are not the description of actual experience (AE), but the contents of thoughts.

But that’s all right, this is what thoughts are ABOUT: analysing, interpreting, and putting everything into categories or into order, and most of all, conceptualizing the actual experience.

But for this investigation we have to stick to the pure experience, BEFORE any thought interpretation. So I will give you exercises, and you just have to look what is there BEFORE thoughts, or WITHOUT thoughts, or if the contents of thoughts are ignored.

So AE is: sounds/hearing, smells/smelling, taste/tasting, sight/seeing, sensation/sensing, and seeing the appearance of a thought. But what the thought about is not AE.

Here is an exercise to help you how LOOK. This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 5-10 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.


Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how it goes.


After doing this exercise for some time, LOOK for the ‘mind’.

How is it known EXACTLY that thoughts are coming from the mind?
Can the process of thoughts coming from the ‘mind’ experienced at all?

What is the actual experience (AE) of mind?

Vivien

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ErinAmber
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby ErinAmber » Sun May 19, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi, Vivien!
Thank you for your good explanation, I try, but I need more time for this exercise.
It is difficult for my monkey mind.
I will answer you tomorrow.
Have a nice day! Ambar

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Vivien
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Re: Light for Erin

Postby Vivien » Mon May 20, 2019 12:38 am

Hi Ambar,

Thank you for letting me. I'm looking forward to your reply.

Have a nice day,
Vivien


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