Seeing Through

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Colette01
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:22 am

Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:16 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no 'self' or 'me' or 'I' to be found in DE. There are many linguistic indicators that 'suggest' a 'me' or 'I' or 'self' but nothing of that nature can be found when looking. There never was a self - only thoughts that labelled nothing. There is no thing that is separate and no thing separate is a 'me' or 'self'

There is no thing named 'Colette' - the label doesn't refer to a 'person' or in fact to anything consistent or solid. The name is a social convention. When i look into direct experience i dont see anything that the colleciton or words 'Colette' refers to. I don’t find gender either.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I was taught as a child to label things ...cat, dog, chair, table, and was given a name ‘Colette’. Information was provided which established that 'I'/Colette was NOT a table, cat or dog. The mirage of differentiation and separation between objects or 'things', and between objects and 'self/Colette was suggested and maintained by though linguistic habit. Separation is a concept. I cannot find self or separation in DE

There isnt any body either - another thought label. There is just direct experience. The knowing of experience e.g. sensation, sound, pain, was interpreted with a single thought as 'proof' of 'me' / a knower, who knew sound, sensation etc. A thought arose - 'someone' is knowing and 'that someone is you...Colette...'I'. Then only one small thought away from inferring that the separate 'I' could/must control a separate world of things.

In direct experience something named 'sensation' arises but when I look there is no thing called 'sensation' - there is something and its named 'sensation'. A thought arises that says sensation is in the body or the hip or jaw...but there's no jaw or hip in DE

Just sensation (or whatever it is) is known doesn't mean there's an 'I' or an I knowing it. Knowing direct experience doesn't imply a process called perception or a person who perceives.
There is no separation between what is seen and the seer. No space between. Just one happening. No one is perceiving and there doesnt need to be perception or perceiving. Everything seen, felt or heard can be taken to imply a knowing subject. But everything is just known without that.

There's not differentiation between auditory and visual - they are concepts too – there is ‘sensory’ experience bubbling up, bubbling up, bubbling up

Sensory experience is taken as proof / evidence of a feeler/hearer/ thinker/ seer, but actually no 'knower' 'seer' is necessary - there is nothing (no one) to refer back to - there is just DE in that moment.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Life feels pretty much the same except I cant now understand why I imagined that there were separate selves/things all over the place. Its like the best kept secret! Before seeing through self reactivity was high, controlling behaviour frequent, fear, tension, effort - thought demanding that 'I' do this / that and the other, that 'I' CONTROL / FIX / SHAPE the world and protect the idea of ‘me’ from apparently avoidable events. There is a lot less thinking now, there is a sense of calm, easy to let things come and go, not taking life 'personally' feels a relief. I had a baseball cap once and written across the top was 'Its all about me'. The belief of 'me'. What a gargantuan misconception!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

A kind of relaxed looking at experience and there was no 'i'. It just wasn't there. Not sure what else to say other than it couldnt be found! A lot of other things couldn’t be found either! It became clear that so much of what was taken for reality was just ‘thought’.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There's is no 'one' to choose - and no need of a 'me' for life to happen.

In direct experience there is no 'choice' or 'control' or 'free will' - all that is seen is sensory experience. There's no one to make a decision or to have intention, to choose or to control anything. No ‘me’ no need to differentiate, separate or control. There's no one to be responsible for anything - things are just happening - 'order' 'predictability' are concepts - anything can be used to evidence 'order' but actually there is no such thing.

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Colette01
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:22 am

Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:40 pm

not sure if this posted successfully first time so here it is again...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no 'self' or 'me' or 'I' to be found in DE. There are many linguistic indicators that 'suggest' a 'me' or 'I' or 'self' but nothing of that nature can be found when looking. There never was a self - only thoughts that labelled nothing. There is no thing that is separate and no thing separate is a 'me' or 'self'

There is no thing named 'Colette' - the label doesn't refer to a 'person' or in fact to anything consistent or solid. The name is a social convention. When i look into direct experience i dont see anything that the colleciton or words 'Colette' refers to. I don’t find gender either.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I was taught as a child to label things ...cat, dog, chair, table, and was given a name ‘Colette’. Information was provided which established that 'I'/Colette was NOT a table, cat or dog. The mirage of differentiation and separation between objects or 'things', and between objects and 'self/Colette was suggested and maintained by though linguistic habit. Separation is a concept. I cannot find self or separation in DE

There isnt any body either - another thought label. There is just direct experience. The knowing of experience e.g. sensation, sound, pain, was interpreted with a single thought as 'proof' of 'me' / a knower, who knew sound, sensation etc. A thought arose - 'someone' is knowing and 'that someone is you...Colette...'I'. Then only one small thought away from inferring that the separate 'I' could/must control a separate world of things.

In direct experience something named 'sensation' arises but when I look there is no thing called 'sensation' - there is something and its named 'sensation'. A thought arises that says sensation is in the body or the hip or jaw...but there's no jaw or hip in DE

Just sensation (or whatever it is) is known doesn't mean there's an 'I' or an I knowing it. Knowing direct experience doesn't imply a process called perception or a person who perceives.
There is no separation between what is seen and the seer. No space between. Just one happening. No one is perceiving and there doesnt need to be perception or perceiving. Everything seen, felt or heard can be taken to imply a knowing subject. But everything is just known without that.

There's not differentiation between auditory and visual - they are concepts too – there is ‘sensory’ experience bubbling up, bubbling up, bubbling up

Sensory experience is taken as proof / evidence of a feeler/hearer/ thinker/ seer, but actually no 'knower' 'seer' is necessary - there is nothing (no one) to refer back to - there is just DE in that moment.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Life feels pretty much the same except I cant now understand why I imagined that there were separate selves/things all over the place. Its like the best kept secret! Before seeing through self reactivity was high, controlling behaviour frequent, fear, tension, effort - thought demanding that 'I' do this / that and the other, that 'I' CONTROL / FIX / SHAPE the world and protect the idea of ‘me’ from apparently avoidable events. There is a lot less thinking now, there is a sense of calm, easy to let things come and go, not taking life 'personally' feels a relief. I had a baseball cap once and written across the top was 'Its all about me'. The belief of 'me'. What a gargantuan misconception!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

A kind of relaxed looking at experience and there was no 'i'. It just wasn't there. Not sure what else to say other than it couldnt be found! A lot of other things couldn’t be found either! It became clear that so much of what was taken for reality was just ‘thought’.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There's is no 'one' to choose - and no need of a 'me' for life to happen.

In direct experience there is no 'choice' or 'control' or 'free will' - all that is seen is sensory experience. There's no one to make a decision or to have intention, to choose or to control anything. No ‘me’ no need to differentiate, separate or control. There's no one to be responsible for anything - things are just happening - 'order' 'predictability' are concepts - anything can be used to evidence 'order' but actually there is no such thing.

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adilerten
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Seeing Through

Postby adilerten » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:35 pm

Hello Colette..
This was asked by my dear guide friend..

"no examples were provided in Q5."

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Colette01
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:22 am

Re: Seeing Through

Postby Colette01 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:50 am

Hi Adil,

here's more....

Q5

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give xamples from xpereince.

A hand is raised and then moves back to the side of the body, the movement is seen, a thought arises (no one chooses if the thought arises - it just happens - no one can make thoughts stop). A thought labels experience i.e. the hand rises, then a thought ascribes ownsership, someone moved the hand, another thought, 'you did it'. Ownership is a concept that gives the illusion of control. Ownership of the hand movement provides proof of an actor in the world - someone must be doing this! The 'I' invented by thought is doing it! The thought-made 'self' must be real because it has hands and those hands can move. Then another inference, 'I' is choosing to move, 'I' is willing the movement. 'I' causes the world to happen and is responsible for those things / movement / occurences. Mystery is replaced by free will and choice - and the discomfort of uncertainty is subdued - the unpleansant fact of life is 'controlled' by thought-made concepts. Choice, control, free will are the mental scaffolding holding up a fictitious 'i'. But they cannot be found in DE because they're concepts.

Waking up this morning. Who decided that? Who decided what time and what thoughts would be seen on waking? Getting out of bed, pulling back the covers, the curtains, passing water, habitual activity, not much thought ascribing action to owner, no need to, it happened yesterday. The fingers move on the keyboards - who is doing that? It happens - in this moment. It's like breathing - its just happening and there is no need for an 'I' to be involved - no one to make it happen. I dont know why breathing is happening - it just does until its done - what a mystery!

Death is instructive. No knowing when, where, how, no one to make it happen or stop it. There is no controlling this -and what's more I dont even know what it is! Death wont come because there's pain or miserableness - thoughts or beliefs in 'I" cannot control how life unfolds. The not 'knowing' that death signifies is difficult to 'understand' with though - only thought hold out the promise of choice and free will - 'dominion over the earth', cheating death, but there isnt any such thing as dominion or death :-) - only thoughts that promise knowing, happiness, safety, predictability, control.

As far as i can tell much of what is happening is happening because of habit and reactivity. Life was met in this way last time so it is met it again like this. There is reactivity and how this shapes up depends on what we've been exposed to. Some people act out and they are called irresponsible - as if they 'really' were in charge of something - as if someone was in there controlling.

All this doesnt mean its OK for me to hit someone who has pushed in front of me in a queue - reactivity/patterns can be seen though. There's no 'I' to defend or get insulted - there are just actions happening in the world and thoughts 'about' them that can / but dont have to lead to action/behaviour.

Others suffer because we live...you can easily say 'i' suffer because of your actions but when you look i.e. at your mum or dad's life - they are just really a bundle of learnt habits trotted out generation after generation - they didn't choose to be like they were. When I looked after a small boy it became obvious that there were habits/thoughts about how things should be. It was obvious that they were based on what had happened before. It wasnt a 'choice' it was a habit. There's no 'bad' or 'good' person responsible for this - but patterns can be seen through and whatever we do or dont do doesnt stop us from apologizing for the harm caused.

Free, control, choice are beliefs, they are not real. We face the possibility of extinction. 'We' are so not in control!


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