Drawn to the gate

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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:46 am

It is quite a ride, isn't it?

Allow everything to settle for a while, mull everything over and share what you find. To take some time to let it sink in is always a good idea.

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:03 pm

Quite a ride indeed, cannot believe it has only been 2 days since it was seen... feels in a way like waking up from a dream, yet still being half in the dream world. Lucid dream, I suppose! Noticed a couple of things. Last night drove to my parents house for dinner, on the way there the thought came "should I stop and get a bottle of wine?" For a minute, thought set out to decide whether I should or should not. Then realized, thinking doesn't have to decide. Thought just showed up with an idea, let's see what happens as the car drives by the store - will I stop, or not? Then there was thinking about something else, and as I passed by the store, the hands moved the wheel and I stopped at the store. Decision was not needed... a thought about a decision could have happened, but it wouldn't have been the cause of turning the wheel, would just have gone along with it.

In the past couple of days as I flip through my spiritual books, or try listening to a bit of a video or audiobook that seemed so profound and important to me before, most of this is no longer needed. A lot of the seeking has fallen away, only a couple of books still interesting, those that are not written for the illusory self but for awareness/experience, like Rupert Spira's books and yoga meditations. There are still questions, but not about the reality of "I". There are still questions about experience, this perspective on experience as it relates to others. I stared at my cat for a long time yesterday wondering, what is this? Is there conscious unity inside of her, just like here? How does this experience relate to experience that I cannot access, like that of my cat and another person... all is one, but "I" can't see it all from here. Are these questions ever answered? Does it just become more clear over time?

Thank you again, Jadzia. Interesting to remember, when submitting this thread here, after having tried before, it didn't seem that I really thought it would happen. Seemed that the seeking might last forever, like it seems to for so many people. Interesting that my thread is titled 'drawn to the gate'... that is how it felt. A year ago, as the story goes, I was an atheist and one day it began to feel that I was being led down a path... each day there were these impulses to listen to a podcast, then buy a book, notice things in a conversation and the events in my life, these led to an intense awakening experience where one moment I went from being an atheist to knowing the divine intelligence 'within me'... looking back at this story, it's beautiful. Of course the separate self felt she was being led to this, that there were forces guiding her. The forces are just the storyline that is happening, she does not exist, she is only along for the ride. This past year has been the story of an awakening, challenging and emotional, but now another major shift into increasing clarity. Feeling grateful for this, for you and for this organization, though really all I am saying is that I am thankful for life, or maybe that is just the experience of love <3

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:01 pm

Oh! I think I understand, we are all like puzzle pieces that fit together. And there is only one puzzle!


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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:41 pm

Thought just showed up with an idea, let's see what happens as the car drives by the store - will I stop, or not? Then there was thinking about something else, and as I passed by the store, the hands moved the wheel and I stopped at the store. Decision was not needed... a thought about a decision could have happened, but it wouldn't have been the cause of turning the wheel, would just have gone along with it.
Right, thoughts can do the I decide thing, but action happens or not, it seems like following impulses.
Simply watching and looking really clears up a lot.
In the past couple of days as I flip through my spiritual books, or try listening to a bit of a video or audiobook that seemed so profound and important to me before, most of this is no longer needed.
This is what happens for most, the seeking falls away.

For many it feels like being led, but then again who is led? Thoughts love story elements which build up on each other.
Oh! I think I understand, we are all like puzzle pieces that fit together. And there is only one puzzle!
Hm, yes, though this picture limps a bit…. There are different pieces in a puzzle, cats can steal one. ;-)
Look at what appears as separate waves on the ocean,....is there ever a moment when a wave is separate from the ocean?

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:07 pm

For many it feels like being led, but then again who is led? Thoughts love story elements which build up on each other.
Right.. the character felt she was being led. Now it is clear that it was just the story moving along.
Look at what appears as separate waves on the ocean,....is there ever a moment when a wave is separate from the ocean?
Yes, waves on the ocean is a a better metaphor, makes even more sense that way too... plus, the ocean is huge and has such depth.

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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Right.. the character felt she was being led. Now it is clear that it was just the story moving along.
You can still use any language you like, we know what we both know, so it doesn't have to be the exact one. Wildsprout does exist, Jadzia does exist just not like it was thought and believed.

The ocean wave picture works amazingly well, oh yes.
Like in the waves might be wild but the ocean is quiet and so on. :-)

I would like to write: just watch life unfold. Totally not correct, right? A watcher????? Outside of life???? No way!
And still you get what I mean.

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:14 pm

We can never be correct when using language, right? Heard that from spiritual teachers many times... now makes sense. Seems like these fireworks will keep going off as insight comes and things become more clear.

Sadness is gone, feeling more thankful today and interested to see what happens next. The end of seeking, the beginning of a whole new kind of exploration of what is.

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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:47 am

We can never be correct when using language, right? Heard that from spiritual teachers many times... now makes sense. Seems like these fireworks will keep going off as insight comes and things become more clear.
Exactly. One word can already be a concept, which is a label with lots of explanations.
Does a label really describe what it labels? Nope, right?
As soon as we use language we are in the conceptual world, so we might use simple language, doesn't matter as long as it is known what is and what is not.
Sadness is gone, feeling more thankful today and interested to see what happens next. The end of seeking, the beginning of a whole new kind of exploration of what is.
It is allowing the unfolding of life/what is which gives a lot of relaxation. No more hard thinking about something, no hard time to decide on something and so on. Nice, isn't it?
Emotions are part of the exploration. Some are labeld moreofit, some donotwant. ;-)

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:25 pm

One thing I noticed last night is that there used to be this idea of a struggle between "me" as this person who was trying to become more present and aware (more "spiritual"), and then an "ego" which was some entity that could swoop in and possess "me", as if it were something solid, some entity that I needed to attempt to defeat or overcome. Now I see that the ego and the separate self are the exact same thing, just a thought, neither are real, there is no 'thing' that could take possession of 'my' experience... the self/ego is just a current thought that is happening in experience, and the second it is noticed, it can dissipate and disappear in an instant. No battle is needed, no entity that can take me over, all that is needed is to notice and the thought can disappear into thin air. That was all that was ever there.

Thank you Jadzia, so where does it go from here? There is no doubt that the "I" does not exist as an entity, only as a thought in experience. Sometimes, the awareness of this is strong, other times, it is in the background, as self-referencing thoughts/stories seem to take center stage again for a while. It seems that there is still a lot of evolution that will take place in the way experience is experienced. Is this where we end, and the rest is just explored? Are there other steps in clearing away more beliefs, such as the experience of outside "objects" and time... to see more clearly?

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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:28 pm

One thing I noticed last night is that there used to be this idea of a struggle between "me" as this person who was trying to become more present and aware (more "spiritual"), and then an "ego" which was some entity that could swoop in and possess "me", as if it were something solid, some entity that I needed to attempt to defeat or overcome. Now I see that the ego and the separate self are the exact same thing, just a thought, neither are real, there is no 'thing' that could take possession of 'my' experience... the self/ego is just a current thought that is happening in experience, and the second it is noticed, it can dissipate and disappear in an instant. No battle is needed, no entity that can take me over, all that is needed is to notice and the thought can disappear into thin air. That was all that was ever there.
Very well noticed, indeed.

What evolution needs to take place? Evolution includes the concept of time, right.
This which is is perfect the way it is, there is no bettering or worsening or growing or declining. Just this. ´Wildsprout, Jadzia, Kay, Lenny are this.

The purpose of this part of the forum is to see that there is self/no self. That what we thought is a character which is the master of everything, the thinker, doer, chooser ect isn't like this at all.
The unfolding will go on, almost on its own. Still there is another part in this forum "Further Investigation" where one can go exploring. And there are facebook groups.

I can give you our questions for checking, which other guides will look at, too. Any of us can ask questions.
Would that be a way to go first?

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:53 pm

What evolution needs to take place? Evolution includes the concept of time, right.
This which is is perfect the way it is, there is no bettering or worsening or growing or declining. Just this.
This is what feels unstable. The seeing of no self is clear... the way or extent that it affects experience keeps changing. I hear that this evolves, becomes more stable over time, as more things make sense. Yes, there is a feeling of wanting this stability to come - that is the sense of self coming back for a visit, I suppose.

If it seems that it is time for the questions and moving to the other forum, then yes, this sounds good and I will answer - thank you

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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:53 pm

Yes, there is a feeling of wanting this stability to come - that is the sense of self coming back for a visit, I suppose.
Is this a feeling or a thought?
Is this a thought aka expectation?

The sense of self stays, this is fine, isn't it the sense of being alive, too?
What gives the information that stability is more advanced than instability? Both are experience. Where does the judging aka labeling come from?

Forget everything you read or learned about how or what should come. This feeds mind games, thought circles, comparisons/thoughts.
Don't resist anything, allow everything.

Love,
Jadzia

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 pm

Is this a feeling or a thought?
Is this a thought aka expectation?
Yes... it's a thought. There are a lot of thoughts now, doubtful thoughts, thoughts asking whether this is supposed to feel different, whether "it" was not fully seen. There is no doubt that the separate self is a fiction, however looking around, it still looks like I am in a body and there are objects around me. I do not see unity. The conversation here is now starting to be confusing. Was that the realization, or is there something more? Was that the gate that you can't turn back from, it seems so, but yet, feeling like there should be something more. Uneasiness.

The thought comes that as a child, when I found out that Santa Claus did not exits, I had my parents continue to put the presents out in the middle of the night on Christmas eve, and fill the stocking, pretending that Santa came. I didn't want to let go of the story, the illusion, I wanted to pretend. It wasn't exactly the same, but it was still fun... but this does not feel fun, it feels like a lot of uncertainty.

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Wildsprout
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:34 am

I think I see what is happening here. Will take a bit of time to let this settle on its own, maybe the long weekend, and come back when it is time... thank you again Jadzia


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Jadzia
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Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:02 am

Time to let it sink in.
Yes... it's a thought. There are a lot of thoughts now, doubtful thoughts, thoughts asking whether this is supposed to feel different, whether "it" was not fully seen. There is no doubt that the separate self is a fiction, however looking around, it still looks like I am in a body and there are objects around me. I do not see unity. The conversation here is now starting to be confusing. Was that the realization, or is there something more? Was that the gate that you can't turn back from, it seems so, but yet, feeling like there should be something more. Uneasiness.
Have a good look at expectations again.
Is there the expectation that there never again will be any doubt?
What about seeing unity? Is there the expectation that unity, oneness is seen the whole time and it will never switch to the background?

Nothing changes. Why not? There never ever was a separate self to start with. In each and every moment it simply was life happening, whatever thoughts might have told.
So it is business as usual: All there is life flowing freely as one movement. Whether it is noticed or not.

Mull this over, try not to overthink, stay close to what you can find in actual experience, and have a lovely weekend.

Love,
Jadzia


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