Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:56 pm

Little hectic. I'll take a day or two to get back :)
ok Tiger.
But use looking even if you are busy.
Always stay with the direct experience!
;)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:05 am

What about a "feeling" of a self ?
Is it still there ?
Look!

Still here.
When I close my eyes. What remains is sensations, sounds and thoughts.
The experience is "I(other than thought) am here" noticing the above 3 which are "there". Some feel farther.. Some feel nearer.

For understanding, I seem to be somewhere in the head region.. maybe around the eyes bcz sensations at the forehead seem to be "there". But even if I touch my eyes when closed.. even these sensations seem to be "slightly there".


Also AE must be verified by one or more of the 5 senses right? Thoughts can neither be seen or heard or touched or smelled or tasted... And yet thoughts at face value exist. It's this experience
Likewise this feeling of me or existing, could exist and felt but not experienced by senses right?

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:18 am

What about a "feeling" of a self ?
Is it still there ?
Look!

Still here.
When I close my eyes. What remains is sensations, sounds and thoughts.
The experience is "I(other than thought) am here" noticing the above 3 which are "there". Some feel farther.. Some feel nearer.

For understanding, I seem to be somewhere in the head region.. maybe around the eyes bcz sensations at the forehead seem to be "there". But even if I touch my eyes when closed.. even these sensations seem to be "slightly there".


Also AE must be verified by one or more of the 5 senses right? Thoughts can neither be seen or heard or touched or smelled or tasted... And yet thoughts at face value exist. It's this experience
Likewise this feeling of me or existing, could exist and felt but not experienced by senses right?

What is this feeling ?
Is it actual sensation ? i asked you if that sensation carry any information that it is a self and you
saw and said "Just a mental concept"

So if we focus to that feeling of self

Imagine you lost your keys and you could swear you left them in your pocket. But when you go to check, they are not there. You empty out all your pockets, still no keys. You feel very strongly that they must be there because that was the last place you saw them.
But they are simply not there. In this case, your actual experience contradicts what it is you are feeling.
This happens all the time.
The problem is that believing in your feelings and not your direct experience will keep you from understanding clearly. It is important to understand that just because you feel something is true, does not mean that it is. You can simply look and see what is true and what is not.

So look now one more time and tell me

Can a feeling be "you"?

Can a thought be a "you"?

Do you really exist ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:37 am

It's like if i was overeating, and i knew. I definitely want to stop but i'm not able to. When normal people advise, they'll say.. Just stop. But in experience it's just not working! I think this is one of the scenarios....

My experience is that I'm somehow a little more than the image, sensations, thoughts and sounds...
But not as an object but a strange feeling... Even if I don't use the words "I exist"... There is knowing that I'm existing or at-least "existing" "here"!


But I promise I'll look more carefully and get back
Can a thought be a "you"?
No
Can a sensation be a "you"?
No

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:01 pm

It's like if i was overeating, and i knew. I definitely want to stop but i'm not able to. When normal people advise, they'll say.. Just stop. But in experience it's just not working! I think this is one of the scenarios....

My experience is that I'm somehow a little more than the image, sensations, thoughts and sounds...
But not as an object but a strange feeling... Even if I don't use the words "I exist"... There is knowing that I'm existing or at-least "existing" "here"!


But I promise I'll look more carefully and get back
Can a thought be a "you"?
No
Can a sensation be a "you"?
No
Yes there is simple awareness of the experience.
But is there someone who is being aware ?
or There is JUST EXPERIENCE that is AWARE of ITSELF ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:05 pm

If I keep telling myself "there is no me" or " I do not exist" will this feeling go away?

Because the way I think is the way I feel and vice versa...

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:25 pm

If I keep telling myself "there is no me" or " I do not exist" will this feeling go away?

Because the way I think is the way I feel and vice versa...

There never was a self but that feeling was there.
:)
Let it be there but you look, looking is the only key

Always look directly to that feeling when it appears,
Ask Is this an actual sensation ?
Is it true ? Can this be a proof of a seperate "me" ?
Can it be ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:36 pm

For a moment stop and take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment:

Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color.
Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.
And notice that you're not making them happen.
You're not conducting the orchestra of experience
And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.
You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it.
You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts..

Focus this and take a good look and tell me please

Where are you really ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:35 am

Focus this and take a good look and tell me please
Where are you really ?

The experience is that whatever I think I am to be is or on around the front face
But the facial sensations are not me.. They seem to be behind or ahead or beside whatever is me

Now, what is the question that i should use to investigate here?

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Focus this and take a good look and tell me please
Where are you really ?

The experience is that whatever I think I am to be is or on around the front face
But the facial sensations are not me.. They seem to be behind or ahead or beside whatever is me

Now, what is the question that i should use to investigate here?
Hello Tiger,
Are you focused ?
If you are busy we can go on later if you like because we need clear dedicated focused attention here.
Can you give now
?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:44 pm

Focus this and take a good look and tell me please
Where are you really ?

The experience is that whatever I think I am to be is or on around the front face
But the facial sensations are not me.. They seem to be behind or ahead or beside whatever is me

Now, what is the question that i should use to investigate here?
We would like to see what is real here and now.
Not uncertain things like "feels/seems"
Again i shall ask
Can you locate this "you" ?
Can you touch/Smell/see/hear/taste that "you" ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Can you locate this "you" ?
Can you touch/Smell/see/hear/taste that "you" ?



There is this feeling that i exist and it's somewhere behind the face or on the face.. unsure!
I can't touch/smell/see/hear/taste. Feeling is the only word that I can use. Isn't this what we refer to consciousness in western medical studies. The subjectivity.

When you pointed AE Body is an image, I can see it. So I agree.
When you pointed AE of mind is just thought, I can see it. So I agree.
When you pointed AE of "I exist" is a thought, I can see that there is thought that says that. So I agree.
Took time but i saw these..
There is JUST EXPERIENCE that is AWARE of ITSELF
This makes no sense to me and I'm finding it hard to see it as well.. Bcz there is this feeling that I exist even if I somehow stop thoughts for a few seconds.. I know that I exist

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Can you locate this "you" ?
Can you touch/Smell/see/hear/taste that "you" ?


There is this feeling that i exist and it's somewhere behind the face or on the face.. unsure!
I can't touch/smell/see/hear/taste. Feeling is the only word that I can use. Isn't this what we refer to consciousness in western medical studies. The subjectivity.
We can say that feeling of existance (happening to nobody) is there or we can say there is awareness of experience.
That's almost the same. But these are just words. Please focus on the direct experience.

But we will keep on focusing that "feeling on the face" because you are not looking. You are thinking. Unsure means thinking not looking. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

Several times you looked before and told me that that feeling has no information about a self/me and a feeling cannot be a self.

Please look carefully again how can a sensation be you ? IS it there all the time or only when you think about it ?
Let's say you are making an activity that you like and lost in it with joy, or you are running away from a dog lets say.. Do you really still have that sense/feeling/thought ?

Look honestly and carefully. How can a sensation/feeling/thought comes and goes can be you ?
What is there for sure ? (we are not looking for unsure answers to add more thinking) :)

There is JUST EXPERIENCE that is AWARE of ITSELF
This makes no sense to me and I'm finding it hard to see it as well.. Bcz there is this feeling that I exist even if I somehow stop thoughts for a few seconds.. I know that I exist
There sure be a non personal feeling of existance. Or being aware of the experience but where is the center to it ?
is it really happening to someone ?
IF yes how do you know this?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:19 pm

it's somewhere behind the face or on the face
When you pointed AE Body is an image, I can see it. So I agree.
So what is the actual experience of a face ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:34 pm

Hello,

I somehow came across Alan Watts statement that the "The ego is a chronic muscular tension". It clicked and somehow had the courage to look and there is nothing in my face.. just sensations.
this happened yesterday & i felt a certain amount of relief and increased attention upon the objects around in the present moment.

I'm scared. What felt like a concrete source before.. Now seeing it exists as a thought.. makes my existence so shaky..
Thoughts as "What am I" and "What is all this" comes up.. Everything goes into havoc psychologically.. bcz of no answers
There is desperate movement to somehow to say this is "me" or that is "me"... this field of sensations.. this awareness... this body! But nothing is clicking...
I existing just as a thought ... death seems like the right option.. let life do it's thing.. "i" don't want to exist commentary is going on.. had to leave work early today..
psychological process happening ... existential process is happening... ; existential process same old nonsense of sensations... at least psychological process is of flavors..
now and then attention is shifting between the two... peaceful and then havoc... and then havoc and then peaceful


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