Seeing through me

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Thank you for reply.
Let’s see.
What shows up when you ask this question:
Is there I? Is there a separate self?

Describe immediate experience.
Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:58 pm

What shows up when you ask this question:
Is there I? Is there a separate self?

Describe immediate experience.
Openness.
A kind of body sensation in the head.
This body sensation triggers thoughts about me.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:03 pm

Nice. Openness. That is the answer. Can you see that?

Here is a video for you
https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0

What do you notice in your experience?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:33 am

What do you notice in your experience?
I have seen this video several times prior to this, and I watched it again now. What you speak of in the video is recognized here. The way you present it in the video is spot on - a lot of plain looking and with a light and humorous attitude.

I notice openness. And a cheerful, free attitude. Difficult to describe that without labels.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:52 pm

Sweet. So that it. You know where to look, what to see. Are you waiting for more?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Sweet. So that it. You know where to look, what to see. Are you waiting for more?
Its a gradual process.
Since a few days back there is a pretty much constant openness as soon as an ‘I’ is looked for.
Somehow there is still the feeling of being separate. Most of the time I have the experience of seeing a world which is separate from me.

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:23 pm

I definitely know where to look and what to see, as you put it.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Right, can you find that feeling of separateness and allow it to be here. Where is it felt? What are you separate from? Where is the line that separates you from out there?
Are you inside or outside the bag of skin?
Is skin a line that separates you from life?
Is sense of separation a contraction, resistance, something that is felt like muscular tension?
Is there such a sensation that we can call separateness at all?

Write what feels true.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm

Right, can you find that feeling of separateness and allow it to be here. Where is it felt?

It's kind of a contraction in the middle of the head somewhere.
It's muscular tension in the cheeks sometimes. There is also often a sensation around the eyes.

What are you separate from?

Separate from the rest of existence.
Where is the line that separates you from out there?
The dividing line that I clearly felt earlier is now gone. It has vanished. But even so, behind what was earlier the dividing line is some contraction and there is some muscular tension.
Are you inside or outside the bag of skin?
Inside. Even though the dividing line is gone.
Is skin a line that separates you from life?
It doesnt feel like that. It feels like... there is some tension/contraction behind what was formerly a dividing line.
Is sense of separation a contraction, resistance, something that is felt like muscular tension?
My answers above picked up the word contraction from this question. Its a good description - its contraction and also some muscular tension.
Is there such a sensation that we can call separateness at all?
No, its a label.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:32 pm

How can you be sepatrate from existence? You exist, right? Are you aware right now?
Here you go. Existence is clearly felt. Or not?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:02 pm

How can you be separate from existence?
Yeah, it’s just a stupid, fixed idea. There is an intellectual understanding that I can’t be separate from the rest of the world.

You exist, right?
I’m not separate from existence, I’m part of it.
Are you aware right now?
Yes
Here you go. Existence is clearly felt. Or not?
It is clearly felt.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Now look this way-
Is life happening to a tree or as a tree?
Can you see that tree is a form of life? That it’s aliveness that takes a form which we call a tree?

Is life happening to this body or as this body?

Can you see that what we call thoughts, feelings, sensations, situation, people, all are names for a form. And we fixate on labels for forms. But all that is aliveness showing up as forms.

Is life happening to you or as you?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:45 pm

Is life happening to a tree or as a tree?
As a tree, I would say.
Can you see that tree is a form of life?
Yes
That it’s aliveness that takes a form which we call a tree?
Yes
Is life happening to this body or as this body?
As a body probably.
Can you see that what we call thoughts, feelings, sensations, situation, people, all are names for a form. And we fixate on labels for forms. But all that is aliveness showing up as forms.
Would you say that everything is aliveness? Or just what we normally call living things?
Is life happening to you or as you?
That’s a good question, I want to take some time with this.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Write more please, what do you notice.
As a body probably.
Can you look there and see, is body part of nature or not?
Can anything be outside of life?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/events/

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:22 pm

Can you look there and see, is body part of nature or not?
My experience is now that there is

seeing/openness

and

objects in this seeing. The body is one of those objects.
That doesn’t have much to do with nature, it’s more of a distinction between seeing and what is occurring in seeing


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