Waking up is my greatest desire

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Freakyboo
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Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:36 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that 'I' am an illusion of 'my' mind - but I understand this only intellectually. I imagine 'myself' as a wave rising out of an ocean and I will eventually fall back into it. I understand that my thoughts and beliefs go deep, and that they are set up as a barrier between the small "I" and awareness of who I really am.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have been 'searching' my entire adult life and only in the past year begun understanding what 'awakening' really means. I am looking for help and guidance on the path, as I have been trying all kinds of spiritual practices but not settled on one - I feel I need a teacher or someone to guide me in the process. I really want to awaken to who I truly am - become my most authentic 'self.' and having a guide and a community at LU would help me to achieve this, I feel.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I guess I expect someone to pose questions which cause me to look deep within myself, and peel back layers of illusion to find the answer. I expect the questions to challenge my currently held beliefs about who I am and what the world is and to shake my very foundations, to lead me to the truth.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have done many vipassana meditation retreats (16 years ago before I had my son). I currently practise a form of kundalini yoga and tantric breathing meditations. I watch video's (such as Actualized.org and Transformational coaching) constantly to learn more about the path and read books on Buddhism and Indian spiritual practises.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:17 am

Hi Freakyboo,

My name is Kay and I am happy to assist you with exploring the concept of the separate self. My role is to point by using exercises and questions, but it is up to you to do the looking, as you have to see what is being pointed at for yourself; that is why we are described as guides and not teachers. This is not about discovering what you are; it is about challenging concepts and beliefs so as to see and realise what you thought you are, is not as it is thought to be.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:-

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:-

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/


“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ&app=desktop

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Freakyboo
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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:04 am

Hi Kay,

I'm Lee. Thanks for offering to guide me in my endeavor to see all as it truly is.

I feel I am ready to drop whatever concepts, beliefs, thought patterns that have obscured the real from my vision. I have been practicing surrendering to the moment and observing whatever comes up within me as a passing wisp like the wind for the past week or so, as well as questioning who is this that is thinking these thoughts or reacting emotionally, and have been finding a relaxed peace from this practice.

I understand that you are a guide, not a teacher. I have read all the disclaimers and terms and conditions, and I understand what this process entails.

Lee

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:05 am

Hello Lee,

I feel I am ready to drop whatever concepts, beliefs, thought patterns that have obscured the real from my vision. I have been practicing surrendering to the moment and observing whatever comes up within me as a passing wisp like the wind for the past week or so, as well as questioning who is this that is thinking these thoughts or reacting emotionally, and have been finding a relaxed peace from this practice.

For this exploration you will learn a different form of inquiry. It is not about questioning “who is this”, as who are you asking the question of? This exploration is about looking to see what is actually appearing in the moment as opposed to what thought says is happening. So I would like you to put aside all forms of inquiry that you have previously used and put aside anything you think you know and just be here with an open mind and a willingness to look. We are going to look at expectations first, and then we will get on with becoming aware of actual experience (AE) and what looking is.

Thank you for reading the links, including the disclaimer. I hope you also looked at how to use the quote function.

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. Every expectation is in the way of seeing what is here, right now. Every single expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations are about the future. But liberation cannot be found in the future.

In your own words could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Freakyboo
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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:56 pm

Hi Kay,
I won't be able to answer your questions today as I am driving a distance to attend a kambo ceremony (frog medicine) and will be out all day.

I will attend fully to your questions as soon as I am able.

Many thanks,
Lee

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:20 am

Thank you for letting me know.

K
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Freakyboo
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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:09 pm

Hi Kay,
It is not about questioning “who is this”, as who are you asking the question of? This exploration is about looking to see what is actually appearing in the moment as opposed to what thought says is happening.
Yes, very good point - I can see that now.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation.
Haha, this will be the trickiest part for me, as I am an avid learner. I will endeavour to do so as I explore what is arising in me during this dialogue with you.
How will your life change?
My understanding at this point is that not much will necessarily change externally – as in, life will go on with the usual daily routine and responsibilities. I think that when no longer identifying with an “I” persona, I may make external changes that come from being more in the ‘flow’ of life, rather than making decisions based on identification with the egoic self.
How will you change?
I think that realisation that there is no “me” and no one really steering the ship, so to speak, will make it easier to be in the ‘flow’ of life, rather than feeling that “I” need to be in control all the time.
I also think that realisation of no me, will allow me to disidentify with emotional reactivity – as in, the emotions will still arise but “I” will not be caught up in them and make decisions based on them. “I” will be the calm beneath the waves, yet observing the waves and ripples on the surface. “I” will have the ability to choose what I will react to.
What will be different?
I think that realising ‘no me’ will completely flip my view of reality inside out. I will no longer believe in the solid world, as I will understand that nothing really exists – it is all pure perception – the brain interpreting what the sense organs experience. I will perceive that all is nothingness, including ‘myself,’ which may radically alter the way I relate with the world.
What is missing?
I feel deep down that I am missing what is real. What/who am I underneath these layers upon layers of conditioned reactions, personas and social masks? Who/what am I behind the crazy jester realm I call my busy mind? I have done a lot of work to try to get behind the layers of mind, including meditations, plant medicines (ayahuasca), listening to teachings, reading, researching, practising various yoga techniques and yet the barrier is still there.

Warm regards,
Lee

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:42 am

Hi Lee,

The purpose of the questions was for you and I to become aware of any expectations you may have of what having the realisation may look like, feel like or seem like. Expectations have a habit of getting in the way of the exploration and even blind siding the fact that the realisation has happened. There is nothing to be done with expectations other than to become aware of them and more will appear as we explore.

When you read my responses be aware of what arises for you ie anger, disappointment, fear, resistance etc and just let me know.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation.
Haha, this will be the trickiest part for me, as I am an avid learner. I will endeavour to do so as I explore what is arising in me during this dialogue with you.
This process is about ‘unlearning’ everything you think you know and is not about learning anything..other than how to LOOK. It’s about seeing through beliefs/thoughts/ideas/knowledge that actually keep the idea of being a separate self alive and kicking.
How will your life change?
My understanding at this point is that not much will necessarily change externally – as in, life will go on with the usual daily routine and responsibilities. I think that when no longer identifying with an “I” persona, I may make external changes that come from being more in the ‘flow’ of life, rather than making decisions based on identification with the egoic self.
There is no one identifying with an “I persona”, that is simply an appearing thought. There has never been a separate self, not even now. Since there is no separate self, then there isn’t anyone who can, or is, making external changes either. Life is simply lifing.
How will you change?
I think that realisation that there is no “me” and no one really steering the ship, so to speak, will make it easier to be in the ‘flow’ of life, rather than feeling that “I” need to be in control all the time.
Life has always just flowed. There is no one and no thing that is controlling life. There is no one who is or isn’t in the flow of life – it may seem so, but that doesn’t make it so.
I also think that realisation of no me, will allow me to disidentify with emotional reactivity – as in, the emotions will still arise but “I” will not be caught up in them and make decisions based on them. “I” will be the calm beneath the waves, yet observing the waves and ripples on the surface. “I” will have the ability to choose what I will react to.
Emotions continue to appear, they are an appearance just as reactivity is an appearance, just as sound is an appearance, just as thoughts are an appearance. There is no one who has the ability to “choose what will be reacted to”. There is no thinker, decider, doer, chooser, feeler or sayer.
What will be different?
I think that realising ‘no me’ will completely flip my view of reality inside out. I will no longer believe in the solid world, as I will understand that nothing really exists – it is all pure perception – the brain interpreting what the sense organs experience. I will perceive that all is nothingness, including ‘myself,’ which may radically alter the way I relate with the world.
Hmmm…great expectation to be aware of. “Perceiving that all is nothingness” is a concept, as is trying to reach silence. Perception changes on what you think you are but that doesn’t mean you will perceive nothingness. What does that even look like? Chop wood carry water before enlightenment, chop water carry water after enlightenment.
What is missing?
I feel deep down that I am missing what is real. What/who am I underneath these layers upon layers of conditioned reactions, personas and social masks? Who/what am I behind the crazy jester realm I call my busy mind? I have done a lot of work to try to get behind the layers of mind, including meditations, plant medicines (ayahuasca), listening to teachings, reading, researching, practising various yoga techniques and yet the barrier is still there.
When you saw that Santa Claus was a fictional character, what actually changed? Did Christmas disappear, did Santa disappear or did he still continue to show up on every street corner at Christmas? Carols are still sung, people still gather together and gifts are still exchanged. The only thing that changed was the knowing that Santa didn’t exist. That is the same with realising there is no separate self.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:22 am

Expectations have a habit of getting in the way of the exploration and even blind siding the fact that the realisation has happened. There is nothing to be done with expectations other than to become aware of them and more will appear as we explore.
Thank you for pointing this out. I find that expectations are regularly blocking my ability to see what is arising now, as I keep checking to see if awakening is occurring yet. Yesterday I went for a long walk on the beach, and when I completely relaxed enough to notice my experience, found expectations/hopes of awakening getting in the way of my present moment awareness. I would begin noticing a dissolving of labels and pure experience arising, then I would be checking, ‘is this awakening,’ and the ‘jester realm’ (thoughts) would snap back in hard and fast.
This process is about ‘unlearning’ everything you think you know and is not about learning anything..other than how to LOOK. It’s about seeing through beliefs/thoughts/ideas/knowledge that actually keep the idea of being a separate self alive and kicking.
Kay, I am not sure how to look. If a thought/feeling arises, I will check in with my body – see where the feeling is arising and notice the thought that generated that feeling. I enquire into ‘who’ is thinking the thought/feeling the emotion, using thought, and even ask ‘where is this thought coming from?’ but nothing comes up. The feeling will dissipate as I observe it, then nothing. Is there another method I can use to look that I am not using?
There is no one identifying with an “I persona”, that is simply an appearing thought.
“I” am nothing more than thoughts arising in the present moment, though I wonder, who is it that grasps onto those thoughts with sometimes intense emotion and attaches to them? Who or what is doing this? I cannot find the answer.
Emotions continue to appear, they are an appearance just as reactivity is an appearance, just as sound is an appearance, just as thoughts are an appearance. There is no one who has the ability to “choose what will be reacted to”. There is no thinker, decider, doer, chooser, feeler or sayer.
Confusion arises as I read this – how are these emotions/reactions experienced without an experiencer? I feel some resistance also arising in the chest area as a slight pain, even sadness coming. I have a faint glimpse of what ‘no experiencer’ is like and faint fear to go along with it.
“Perceiving that all is nothingness” is a concept, as is trying to reach silence.
Attempting to grasp this statement, feelings of inadequacy are arising – am “I” up to the task of dropping concepts and beliefs to really feel into the nature of being? The wall feels thick and strong and impenetrable. Frustrated feelings also emerging.
When you saw that Santa Claus was a fictional character, what actually changed? Did Christmas disappear, did Santa disappear or did he still continue to show up on every street corner at Christmas? Carols are still sung, people still gather together and gifts are still exchanged. The only thing that changed was the knowing that Santa didn’t exist. That is the same with realising there is no separate self.
Is it truly that simple? Santa is a belief and when we find out he’s not real, it’s not difficult to drop that belief as all the questions we had finally make sense. Is it really equally as simple to drop the belief of a self?

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:06 pm

Hello Lee,
This process is about ‘unlearning’ everything you think you know and is not about learning anything..other than how to LOOK. It’s about seeing through beliefs/thoughts/ideas/knowledge that actually keep the idea of being a separate self alive and kicking.
Kay, I am not sure how to look. If a thought/feeling arises, I will check in with my body – see where the feeling is arising and notice the thought that generated that feeling. I enquire into ‘who’ is thinking the thought/feeling the emotion, using thought, and even ask ‘where is this thought coming from?’ but nothing comes up. The feeling will dissipate as I observe it, then nothing. Is there another method I can use to look that I am not using?
We will be learning to become aware of actual experience (AE) and how to look with AE next. This will be the key to having the realisation of there being no separate self.
There is no one identifying with an “I persona”, that is simply an appearing thought.
“I” am nothing more than thoughts arising in the present moment, though I wonder, who is it that grasps onto those thoughts with sometimes intense emotion and attaches to them? Who or what is doing this? I cannot find the answer.
This will reveal itself as we explore. I guide to a structure and there is a reason for this…so you will have to be patient…and be patient with yourself.
Emotions continue to appear, they are an appearance just as reactivity is an appearance, just as sound is an appearance, just as thoughts are an appearance. There is no one who has the ability to “choose what will be reacted to”. There is no thinker, decider, doer, chooser, feeler or sayer.
Confusion arises as I read this – how are these emotions/reactions experienced without an experiencer? I feel some resistance also arising in the chest area as a slight pain, even sadness coming. I have a faint glimpse of what ‘no experiencer’ is like and faint fear to go along with it.
This will also become clearer. Thank you for being so open and honest in your responses. When fear, anxiety, resistance, anger etc appear during out exploration, I would like you to let me know so that we can look at them together.
“Perceiving that all is nothingness” is a concept, as is trying to reach silence.
Attempting to grasp this statement, feelings of inadequacy are arising – am “I” up to the task of dropping concepts and beliefs to really feel into the nature of being? The wall feels thick and strong and impenetrable. Frustrated feelings also emerging.
Great awareness and yes, this will continue to happen as there is both the fear of seeing and what that entails and the fear of not seeing. This exploration will evoke many emotional reponses. You are very much aware of your emotions and you are not shy in feeling them…this is terrific and will benefit you greatly.
When you saw that Santa Claus was a fictional character, what actually changed? Did Christmas disappear, did Santa disappear or did he still continue to show up on every street corner at Christmas? Carols are still sung, people still gather together and gifts are still exchanged. The only thing that changed was the knowing that Santa didn’t exist. That is the same with realising there is no separate self.
Is it truly that simple?
Santa is a belief and when we find out he’s not real, it’s not difficult to drop that belief as all the questions we had finally make sense. Is it really equally as simple to drop the belief of a self?
What has been seen cannot be unseen! There is no dropping of beliefs, the belief drops itself, so to speak. When the realisation of ‘no self’ happens, the belief slowly starts to weaken, but it does not drop away in one instant…and for this you can be grateful as the ‘awakening’ is slow and gentle. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

Okay, now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. Actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the noticing of thought at face value. The term ‘actual experience’ (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, LOOKING’ is just plain looking at actual experience (AE) in the current moment. It is no different to looking for your car keys when you think you have misplaced them. But instead of looking for car keys, you are looking at AE - the raw experience MINUS the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

The following exercise points to what I mean and is the beginning of learning how to look by becoming aware of actual experience.

If you have a ‘real’ apple then you can use that for this exercise.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Throughout our exploration, what is highlighted in blue text is what I would like you to answer please. Don't forget to use the quote function.

Kay :)
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:52 pm

Kay, before I answer your post (will have to be tomorrow as it's late here), I wanted to tell you about an experience I just had while doing yoga. I was resting in a sitting posture between poses and I suddenly felt myself arising constantly - like energy arising and I had a real glimpse into 'me' being a concept of the mind, and nothing there. The glimpse frightened me so much that I snapped back to thought.
I felt dizzy with terror, and it felt the same as the existential terror I sometimes experience. I"m still feeling afraid now, though it's dissipating.

I felt I wanted to tell you about that, as your words are really helping me to go beyond concepts.
Fear is what is preventing me seeing the truth - it's a wall.

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:48 pm

Hello Lee,
Kay, before I answer your post (will have to be tomorrow as it's late here), I wanted to tell you about an experience I just had while doing yoga. I was resting in a sitting posture between poses and I suddenly felt myself arising constantly - like energy arising and I had a real glimpse into 'me' being a concept of the mind, and nothing there. The glimpse frightened me so much that I snapped back to thought.
I felt dizzy with terror, and it felt the same as the existential terror I sometimes experience. I"m still feeling afraid now, though it's dissipating.
This is a ‘happening’ within the dream itself. There is no special place to reach, nowhere to go, no special thoughts to have and no special experience to have in order to see what actually IS. There is no one to awaken…what already IS, is! It is just that it is not being seen for what it is because thought overlays actual experience with stories, and the stories are what are being focussed on instead of what actually IS.

Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

We will look at ‘fear’ once you have become aware of what actual experience (AE) is, as we will look at ‘fear’ with AE – however, what ‘fear’ is in actual experience (SE) is…

The label ‘fear’ is AE of thought and not AE of fear
Sensation labelled ‘fear’ is AE of sensation and not AE of fear
Image labelled as ‘me/I/body’ is AE of colour and not AE of a person in fear.
Thought ABOUT fear and what fear is etc are AE of thought and not AE of fear.

So what is actually appearing, what is actually known(AE) is label + sensation + colour + thought. Can a ‘fearful self’ be found in a label, sensation, colour or thoughts? If not, then can a ‘fearful self’ be known?
I felt I wanted to tell you about that, as your words are really helping me to go beyond concepts. Fear is what is preventing me seeing the truth - it's a wall.
Going beyond concepts is not about having out of body experiences, reaching a special place, changing state of mind etc. It is simply seeing what IS ie sound, colour, smell, thought, taste and sensation (AE). It is very simple. Once you become aware of AE, you will see what I mean. I look forward to your response to the apple exercise.

Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:20 am

Hi Kay,
I will post my response in the morning, as I have had a long day today and I want to really put all my energy into this.

Warm regards,
Lee

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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby Freakyboo » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:30 am

this will continue to happen as there is both the fear of seeing and what that entails and the fear of not seeing.
Beginning to see this now. The fear arising of NOT awakening to no-self is about fear of remaining stuck in the suffering of the illusion of a separate self – this feels like it is with me all the time in day to day life. It is a dull ache in my chest and belly; sometimes a feeling of despair. The fear that arises when faced with no-self feels like standing on the edge of a precipice looking into unknown depths.
This exploration will evoke many emotional reponses. You are very much aware of your emotions and you are not shy in feeling them…this is terrific and will benefit you greatly.
I appreciate your encouragement and thank you for taking the time to help me like this – I am very grateful and passionate about this process.
The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.
I’m so glad you explained this. The process is becoming clearer. There are things I want to say, but I know they are rooted in the illusion of a separate self and they feel kind of futile in this type of forum.
It is no different to looking for your car keys when you think you have misplaced them. But instead of looking for car keys, you are looking at AE - the raw experience MINUS the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.
Some anxiety arising in my belly and chest as I read this, because of “my” habit of putting pressure on myself when faced with what seems like a challenging task – looking for car keys/looking for no-self.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
I look and I see the red and the thought ‘apple’ is there. Beyond that, I don’t know.
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
Being honest here – I’m struggling with the significance of this. Am I looking at ‘apple’ the way a baby looks at it, without learned concepts? In actual experience, I guess it is just thought and colour – there’s more than one colour in the one I have here, as well as shapes, lines and dots – if I really LOOK.
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
Without all those learned concepts/labels to frame and cage it, the EXPERIENCE is a shape, mingled colours, a smell, a taste, wetness/juiciness on the tongue, smoothness and coolness to touch, crunch sound when I bite and chew.
The label ‘fear’ is AE of thought and not AE of fear
Sensation labelled ‘fear’ is AE of sensation and not AE of fear
Image labelled as ‘me/I/body’ is AE of colour and not AE of a person in fear.
Thought ABOUT fear and what fear is etc are AE of thought and not AE of fear.
Right, so fear = sensations arising labelled ‘fear’ and ‘unpleasant.’ I guess I’m trying too hard to wrap my ‘head’ around this because I feel there is something I’m not getting here – feeling a bit frustrated right now.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Waking up is my greatest desire

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:03 am

Hello Lee,
Right, so fear = sensations arising labelled ‘fear’ and ‘unpleasant.’ I guess I’m trying too hard to wrap my ‘head’ around this because I feel there is something I’m not getting here – feeling a bit frustrated right now.
Yes, thought points to the sensation and then labels it as 'fear' and further states that the sensation is 'unpleasant' and further tells a story about what fear is/means and what the fear is about.
All that is appearing aka known is sensation + label + thoughts about the sensation.

Does the label 'fear' contain any actual fear?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is fear or fearful?
Do the thoughts about the fear contain any actual fear?


Efforting and worrying won’t get you anywhere fast…and I know it’s easy to say ‘relax’, but have fun with this exploration. “Trying” to get it only makes it harder and it then feels like you are failing, and that there is something wrong with you because everyone else gets it but “me”! This only increases suffering and does you no favours. I am not going anywhere, so however long it takes…it takes. We have only just begun this exploration. I will show you how to LOOK…so please don’t stress about that.

So, let’s do a more indepth LOOK at the apple exercise.

If you have an ‘apple’ or any other piece of fruit or even a piece of cheese or chocolate will do….go get it and then place it in front of you on the table.

Now LOOK carefully and with curiosity….not with “have to see this”. Take your time.

1. The image of the ‘apple’ is the actual experience (AE) of colour and NOT the AE of an apple. The shape referred to as ‘apple’ is just different shades and patterns of colour. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the colour.

Does the colour itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?


2. Now, pick up the ‘apple’ and close the eyes. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and of ‘hands’ and just focus on the sensation.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is an apple, and that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of sensation?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an ‘apple’?


3. Now, take a bite of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the taste.

Does taste itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simply AE of taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?


4. Now, have a smell of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the smell.

Does smell itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?


5. Now, listen to the sound of the ‘crunch of an apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the sound.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of sound?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sound is that of an ‘apple’?


6. So now look at the label ‘apple and the thought “I am looking at, and eating an apple”.

Does the label itself or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or are they just simply AE of label/thought?

The label ‘apple’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of an apple
The image labelled ‘apple’ is AE of colour and not the AE of an apple
The smell labelled ‘apple’ is AE of smell and not the AE of an apple
The taste labelled ‘apple’ is AE of taste and not the AE of an apple
The sound labelled ‘crunchy apple’ is AE of sound and not the AE of an apple
The sensation labelled as ‘hard, round apple’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of an apple

Thought overlays actual experience with concepts. An example being the AE of colour is being labelled as an 'apple'.

So is there really actual experience of an ‘apple’, or what is actually appearing, what the actual experience is, is colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound, which thought then labels and describes as an 'apple'?
In other words, is an apple actually known or only thoughts about an apple are known?


Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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