self discovery

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jbzusb12
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self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:17 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I actually don't know. I assume it is seeing through the illusion of, or the misrepresentation of thought. It means seeing clearly that I am not this body/mind. There is still strong identification to the I am the body ideas and the: I am these thoughts. But my understanding is merely intellectual and not visceral enough to be of any use.

What are you looking for at LU?
Clear seeing and feeling that I am not this body or these thoughts. I want liberation from the complex identification with "my" self. I want liberation from suffering. I realize that thoughts and feelings will still exist, but I don't want to be SO caught up in identifying with them.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have no idea. I have yet to experience anything like this. I expect there will be examination of currently held beliefs and attachments. I expect there will be pointing to a perspective that is no perspective at all.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

I did some bhakti yoga when I was younger and experienced periods of peace of mind. I have used a mantra daily for the past few years and have done some vispassana on my own. I read some Tara Brach and others. I have watched some youtube of Mooji and read a little about zen and advaita teachings.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi jbzusb12! Welcome to LU, and thanks for the introduction.
My name is Bananafish, and I'd be more than glad to be your guide.


I want liberation from the complex identification with "my" self. I want liberation from suffering. I realize that thoughts and feelings will still exist, but I don't want to be SO caught up in identifying with them.



To begin with, can you tell more about what will change after being liberated from suffering?


Looking forward to your reply!

Bananafish

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:26 pm

Thank you Bannafish!

I assume, the thoughts will no longer be considered to be mine and so they won't be taken sooooo seriously. It will be clearly seen and felt that there is no me thinking the thoughts or doing the thoughts and sensations. It will be totally clear that this body and thoughts is not me.
It will be clearly felt and known that there is no personal experiencer.

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 pm

Thank you, jbzusb12 (is there any other way I can call you, btw?). :)



Now, let's have a look at thoughts.

First, please sit quietly, preferably in a quiet place, and observe the thoughts
coming and going.

Then please report anything you noticed about the thoughts.

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 am

Hi! Can you post your reply here on the forum, instead of sending an email?

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:16 am

Yes!

Sorry, I'm new to this site.

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:19 am

Do I need to post what I sent you in the email now or not?

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:35 am

Yes, please do so.

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:53 am

Ok. Here is the reply I sent via email by error. :

Having to notice thoughts is a lot of thinking in itself. There is some
emotional irritation at creating more thought to notice thoughts.... or
maybe there is just both happening. Noticing what is happening comes after
the thoughts. It's usually an emotional response (especially so - called
negative emotions) that call the attention to the thoughts.

Thank you.

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:14 am

There is some emotional irritation at creating more thought to notice thoughts


Is thought needed to notice thoughts?
Have you really observed it? Are you 100% sure?

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:07 pm

I'm observing that noticing thoughts just happens without my trying to notice them. It is automatic. Sometimes there is more awareness of thoughts than at other times i.e. when there are strong emotions that are uncomfortable.

Unless, I'm focusing my attention on a task or a problem, there seems to be no control over what arises.

(This concept of lacking control is interesting. Even to focus my attention on a task, (philosophical or otherwise), concepts are needed, memory is needed, motivation must be there, education is needed, a relative state of health is needed, sunshine, air, access to food, time, etc. So many factors!)

And yet, I'm such a control freak! :)

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:13 pm

I'm afraid you didn't directly answer my question; here is the question, again:

Is thought needed to notice thoughts?

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:03 pm

A thought cannot be noticed without there being a thought in the first place. So thought is needed to notice thought.

Noticing or "taking notice of" is itself thought.

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Bananafish
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Re: self discovery

Postby Bananafish » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:24 am

A thought cannot be noticed without there being a thought in the first place. So thought is needed to notice thought.

Noticing or "taking notice of" is itself thought.


Could you tell how you experience thoughts?

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jbzusb12
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Re: self discovery

Postby jbzusb12 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:13 pm

"Can you tell how you experience thoughts?" :

Sometimes thoughts fly through without much attention being paid to them.

Sometimes I pay a lot of attention to them i.e. when I'm analyzing something.

Sometimes, they are a label for an emotion I'm experiencing as in a story, assumption, or projection about the emotion i.e. "I don't like the feeling of this emotion which is a reaction to the thoughts I'm having. I need to get rid of these thoughts that are triggering this feeling." Intellectually, I know I have no control over the thoughts or the emotional reactions. I can best deal with them in shikantaza or some form of meditation. Of course, this is all "I", "I", "I", or at least, I think it is... Intellectually, I sometimes see that it's all just going on without any control.


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