Pushing Through

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:53 am

Hi,

I seem to be focusing on the intellectual side of things which has caused me to get into a state of mutli tasking, trying to accomplishing many things at once.

Have been running on Ego and some mind patterns have, but did some relaxation this morning and feel much clearer, and know if I stay with that I can be more focused and in the present moment, and connect to this inquiry.

Have a strong tendency to want to sort everybody else’s problems out before mine, with a feeling of ‘I am free and enlightened’ (when in reality I am not) – I think its my ego trying to claim some victory here… I then have thoughts of wanting to fix all my friends and family (which is something I would like to do) but think I need to fix myself first…its very strong in me to want to give, but it leaves me feeling in a kind of limbo…not free not unfree kind of thing..lots of knowledge but not feeling it…

Think this is where I was when we started with you, and know I made real progress, but the tendency to run away from myself and let life lead me, when I need to lead life…

Also have a tendency to want to compete with myself and other, feel that life is sometimes a competition and that I need to win. And this tendency causes me to feel that I have to be better or more enlightened that others, and can see that this is not real and causing me suffering…

feel a great expectation from family (my in laws) to be the great father, funny, caring, husband, charitable, caring, save the world, intellectual, successful at work - doing the whole time, prostrating myself for others. I avoided a weekend away with them as didn't want to get caught up in that pattern of being..


Thank you for your patience.

Love Steven

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:56 am

Strong sense of 'Guilt' aswell...I am not good enough, think this comes from my wife and her family, its like we love you as you are -so long as you are being and acting as we see fit.

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:06 am

Maybe I have a strong tendency to judge everything...this is good, this is not good...causes me to suffer

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amrita
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby amrita » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:02 pm

Hey,

thank you for your full answers Steven. It certainly seems from what you write there is a lot of comparison about imaginary selves feeling superior or inferior to other people around you. I can empthasise as I used to spend a lot of time judging everything and fantasising about how I wished things to be other than what they were/are. Thankfully a lot of that comparing and judging dropped away when I saw that there was no self to cling to or identify with. I realised I was constantly trying to create or imagine a self and and as a result of doing this inquiry saw the self is purely a mental (thought) construct. It doesn't exist in direct experience and is something thought superimposes upon our raw primary experience of the senses. Does that make any kind of sense to you?

As you have noted, this inquiry directs awareness to what is actually experienced in the present moment rather than getting caught up in thought stories about life. Let's go back to the first exercise we did and practice this again.

Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Try not to get caught up in labelling what you see ie that is a cup but label the actual sense experience ie colour, sensation without becoming caught up in the content.

I hope the above makese sense. If so, practice that for a day or so and post back when you are ready.

Love

Amrita

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:54 am

thank you for your full answers Steven. It certainly seems from what you write there is a lot of comparison about imaginary selves feeling superior or inferior to other people around you. I can empthasise as I used to spend a lot of time judging everything and fantasising about how I wished things to be other than what they were/are. Thankfully a lot of that comparing and judging dropped away when I saw that there was no self to cling to or identify with. I realised I was constantly trying to create or imagine a self and and as a result of doing this inquiry saw the self is purely a mental (thought) construct. It doesn't exist in direct experience and is something thought superimposes upon our raw primary experience of the senses. Does that make any kind of sense to you?
Yes it does make sense, I guess we are surrounded by other ego's in daily life so feel the need to have one myself to deal with/meet/compete with there ego's. In this respect its a kind of crutch to deal with life and lifes situations - as I have heard before that life gives you what you need in the present moment so keeping all that thought stuff alive is a kind a fear of the unknown?

I am working on the exercises, will report back, thank you.

Love Steven

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:03 pm

I think I have been experiencing liberation - but not sure how and why and how hold onto it...does that make sense?

feeling open and no particular 'I' thought's in my head or 'I' feelings in my body - however had the experience last week and wasn't sure what it was, and enjoyed the experience but wasn't clear on what was happening...maybe started feeling abit Holy or outer body...

But happens again today, now - and feel great -

My fear, but it doesn't feel like fear - just a gentle hope or wish is that it will last...

feel like my life has been controlled by strings, but now these strings have been cut...and don't want them to be reattached...?

Underlying all this is a subtle anger/fear that certain people in my life (who are living with there separate self's) will cause me through interaction with them back into my SS to fit in with them?

Or, as writing I have a subtle feeling that I am not worthy of this liberation, its for other people..?

or that my father and mother in law (they are nice people but Know it all's) and that they couldn't accept any change in me and my attitude because they haven't discovered this and if they haven't, then I have to remain ignorant with them....?and or no one else can or should because that would invalidate them as people...

Or that old patterns will reemerge...bodily sensations...but right now feel free and liberated...is it permanent?

Love Steven

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amrita
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby amrita » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:43 pm

This sounds great Steven,
I think I have been experiencing liberation - but not sure how and why and how hold onto it...does that make sense?
Can you say a bit more about this please?

In relation to feeling a bit "holy" this inquiry is not about bestowing special or spiritual powers. Its about seeing clearly that something which has been assumed to be there (self, sense of I or me-ness) is actually there at all in direct experience. Life will still go on as before, bills have to paid, children taken to school, chores have to be carried out. There is all this but there is clearly seen / experienced there is no self or I at the centre of it all. There is just is-ness :)

Lots of love to you

Amrita

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:03 pm

Um, it was just a kind of clarity...walking through the park - feeling at one with everything...wouldn't say more than that - just a nice experience that felt peaceful/tranquil - i felt no separation between myself and the environment - at one..

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amrita
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby amrita » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:29 am

Abd how is it for you now? Can you find a self anywhere in experience? Was there ever one?

Love

Amrita

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Hi,

I felt and knew it clearly yesterday, and this morning kind off...but think my mind was thinking or trying to get back to that mind state from yesterday...which felt really Blissful...maybe that's what I am missing today?

Have a few questions too...

I have read that in reality the SS can resurface and we are sometimes the victims off our energy levels / circumstance's / and old thinking patterns about ourselves / people - its not always easy to separate the thoughts and misidentify from them - is this what I should expect or is that just a work in progress that everyone has to deal with?

Also, things like diet, I know what I eat can affect how I feel and perceive, is this also something that can affect how clear or not we are regarding our thoughts and perceptions?

In answer to :
Can you find a self anywhere in experience? Was there ever one?
I am not 100% sure either way, its me thinking here, no other inside me, did I ever exist...well I have existed until now...and maybe some of thoughts about me as a person, my life, my story still seem real today, although they didn't yesterday...

Love Steven

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amrita
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby amrita » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:22 am

Hi Steven,

In response to your questions I think it's impossible to generalise about this process as everybody is so different. For some, they have gone through periods of having litte energy (after they have gated) or for others being overwhelmed by thoughts and feelings that they may have previously repressed. For myself I found the process relatively straight forward, and after I had seen, let go, gated seemed to have more energy than usual. In fact this has been the case for the past 5 years since I gated and I have had no sense of a self returning and I feel bright, happy and expansive most of the time. It's because of this transformation that I am happy to try and guide others to have a similar realisation as it has been so positive for me :).

In relation to your inquiry is it possible to stand back from thinking and thoughts and just observe that there are thoughts present without becoming caught up in the words/pictures? Can any of the mental words/pictures ever be identified with your self or are they representative symbols that only make sense when interpreted through other symbols? What is the difference between thinking (symbolised reality) and direct experience of the senses? I hope that makes sense.

Love

Amrita

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:06 am

Thank you, a few more questions if I may as its useful to understand where you are coming from too...

do you have a daily practice of meditation or anything similar? Do others?

In your experience now, are you caught up in the mind/body/world - do you associate your daily experience with you, does it leave a residue or are you free of emotional attachments to events/what you think other people perceive of you for instance?

Do you have goals or fears that affect your day or are they perceived as separate from you i.e the outcome is the outcome?

I will reflect in your inquiry and report back, thank you.

Love

Steven

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:42 pm

In relation to your inquiry is it possible to stand back from thinking and thoughts and just observe that there are thoughts present without becoming caught up in the words/pictures? Can any of the mental words/pictures ever be identified with your self or are they representative symbols that only make sense when interpreted through other symbols? What is the difference between thinking (symbolised reality) and direct experience of the senses? I hope that makes sense.
Yes I can do this through mediation or observation of direct experience, i.e if my mind becomes agitated I can reconcile that the mood or feelings will pass and its best not to get caught up in the pattern.

I know from experience, without 'dropping back' by use of sitting with myself that I could every maintain a blissful state, I can fall into certain bad habits that can agitate my mind of being and make me feel disconnected, bringing on feelings of fear/desire and enter into a cycle of doing to get free.

In this process I have had some 'amazing experiences' in terms of insight, but with all experience, it ends, and think some of this is where I have been going wrong...chasing experience, instead of just being and accepting/enjoying my life etc and not getting into mind drama's that can resurface if i#m not attuned.

I'd be interested to know from you, as a reference how your day/weeks usually are in terms, are you free from experience i.e a witness to it and/or do you have to work it at times if you let yourself feel overwhelmed/stresed or not feeling 100% inside - you'll exhibit anger/upset that you'll need to reconcile inside of you i.e let go of it?

Love

Steven

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amrita
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby amrita » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:27 pm

I'm not sure how sharing my experience of this proces will help you but I will say a few words about my journey through this in the hope it helps or motivates you. I had a radical shift in the way I experienced life after gating about 5 years ago. This seeing through or dropping the self felt freer and expansive and a lot of my emotional problems dropped away. I guess a lot of my emotional problems were caught up in the mental object of a self and since the self had gone there was a great reduction in my internal suffering. Nowadays I am free of caring what others think of me and I feel free to do and say what I want with out guilt or fear.

I get the sense from what you write that there is a subtle belief that dropping the self will result in a blissful state. It won't. Life will carry on pretty much the way it has been. The difference is that you can see there is no self there to experience it. Life is simply happening. You, me, everybody and everything is part of this great kaleidoscope of colour, sound, taste, smell, sensations. There is no need to resist or try to control what is happening. My advice is for you to learn to accept what is experienced as simply images, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts (which are often a commentary on what has happened) are not to be taken so seriously :). I hope some or all that makes sense.

So back to you now. When you say you feel disconnected, can you describe what that is like in direct experience? What does feeling disconnected actually feel like?

Love

Amrita

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sek
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Re: Pushing Through

Postby sek » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:25 am

Hi, my confusion comes from this so called dropping of the self...my day/week can be varied and in that time I will have to adopt different roles and will have different ways of interacting with others.

That isn't to say that I am generally focused on staying with Awareness as my primary focus, i.e I try not to get caught up in thought patterns and/or make valued judgement, just try to be open.

Referring the feelings of disconnect, I think some of this just down to stress/overdoing it/rushing/hectic lifes and not giving myself a chance to live in the moment, I get into these states where life just overwhelms me and when it calms down I feel lost and have to try to ground myself in something.

I have spent some time this week looking at some of the exercise of direct experience and can see that by exploring these further, they can help break identification with the body and objects as separate from awareness - this is what we are trying to uncover? I have purchased Greg Goodes book - Direct path that has allot of exercises in this respect and think I need to undertake some of this when in my own time...I know within this forum there is a commitment to being a 10 on the scale of how bad we want liberation - but that evokes a pressure in me and tension which doesn't allow me to fully inquire..i.e I feel that i have to get it...like theirs a pressure.

Love Steven


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